cmk

While at it pulling my speakers from the wall/into the room, I had a chat with the guru, TS Lim. He advocates less "treatment", instead, just fill your room with ordinary stuff, bookshelves, CDs, LPs, desk, chair, etc... The reasoning behind this is what some call "room re-enforcement" effect, ie the room reflects certain frequencies more, such that you get the 3D effect, the sense of performers in the room. When sound bounces off the walls, this gives out an echo/a secondary reflection, which the brain as being in space. If you take the extreme case, when you listen to a performance in an old church, the high ceiling and big space gives you a sense of the hall. Coming back to our room, with the speakers away from the walls, sound is allowed to bounce off them and thus create a better sense of space. Lim describes the front plane of the speakers as a mirror - the further you bring the speakers away from the back wall, the deeper your soundstage. Of course each room differs and some treatment is usually necessary in corners, but his point makes perfect sense and flies in the face of commonly held notions of room treatment. I did not believe it at first and thus avoided doing it for years, but now after trying it and hearing the effect, I wouldn't go back. In practice, with the room reflection - you do not need to turn up the volume as much to get the same relative loudness. Also each room will reflect certain frequencies more than others, so some experimentation is required to fine tune and get the right balance. I found that a slight toe-in from direct forward was necessary to get more treble energy to the listening position. Too much toe-in and the soundstage collapses and becomes 2D. With my room, I got more detail in the mids and the bass was re-enforced despite being further away from the wall. The instrumental separation was also much enhanced with voices being clearly distinguished where they appeared as a bunch before. I would conclude by saying that together with (a) clean power supply and ( equipment isolation on footers, © speaker positioning away from walls - rank as the most important tweaks to maximise audio reproduction.

One of the reasons I setup this poll was to see how many use speakers here. Of course most of you would have headphones here. Now of those of you who do use speakers, I just took a look at the setup pictures thread, and most just put their speakers next to their equipment along the front wall. I've discovered that for any speaker to reproduce scale and a sense of "being there" at the performance, the speakers need to be at least 4' into the room, firing straight with very little/no toe-in. In this position, the speakers disappear and the soundstage comes into the room up to the front plane of the speakers. Of course the main drawback is that you lose the use of a big part of the room, but getting the performers into the room is worth it. I've also noticed that there is more detail being presented in the mids. Also as the speakers are away from the wall, there is less likelihood of overloading the room with bass. This is only a suggestion for those of you who may be so inclined to gain a lot more music with this simple tweak.

Good review! Also good to see more contribution.

Piano solo music from Jewel in the Palace. I got the score, now practicing...its a very beautiful piece.

Hey Adhoc, long time no see. I have some questions about the RS1, can I borrow yours for a week?

av98 Thought that you got the Diva amps? Has Stephen delivered them yet?

The EMC 1UP is a good choice. I would recommend you bargain the price down as this unit has been in the market for some years already. Actually Viix post about Squeezebox has piqued my interest in a dedicated PC based system. Just wondering how to integrate this into my current system, then I thought I might spend my money better elsewhere. Anyway, its a good solution for a future wired up home.

CEC TL2 Slinky Links AES/EBU cable Benchmark DAC1 Slinky Links silver RCA ICs Power cords are JPS digital Isolation is DH Jumbo cones

There is no way a properly setup computer will outperform a properly setup TPT/DAC or CDP. If you are just talking about normal pop/rock music, then the computer will probably be sufficient. But if you're talking about well recorded vocals/acoustic instruments where emotion/timbre are very important, a dedicated source is always better. Yes of course any noise, fan, HDD spinning or otherwise will degrade the sound of the source - from a purist point of view. I'm one of those who don't go about ripping music, don't listen to MP3, and I'd like my amps to be tubed, with separate power supplies or battery powered, that's the extent of this pursuit. You asked about a CDP that would outperform the Benchmark DAC1, then I would recommend the Esoteric DV50s. That is the level you are talking about. Also consider the SimMoon SuperNova, Ayre, BAT VK-D5SE. Now these will cost you quite a bit of $$$$, but with the kind of cans you have, you will appreciate these high end sources. BTW the Grace 902 is a good alternative to the DAC1. There are many routes to audio nirvana, and sometimes one route does not necessarily agree with another. At this level, its a lot of fine tuning of everything in the chain, power supply, cables, physical isolation, setup position, and equipment. One simple solution could be to just get the Diva-modified CD63se, which would be a very cost effective option.

You mean you put them in your room???

I've heard many CDPs and transport/DAC setups. Both options are viable. With a budget like $2k, you might as well stick with a CDP, maybe later you can consider the option of adding a DAC and use the CDP as a transport, so look for one which has this potential. Rameish is right, forget about using the computer as a transport. You will not do justice to your headphones. For CDPs, I find the belt driven CECs pretty good. Not reviewed by US press, but so what, they sound good. You can also use them as a transport later when you want to add a DAC.

Heard that you just got your HGP speakers. I listened to them briefly at Sky Audio. Very good stuff. I would recommend you pull them out into the room(TS recommended 52" from rear wall) with almost no toe-in. Listening position about 45deg angle with the speakers and have a listen.

Put up this poll to see how many members use one or both transducers. Next question would be which do you use more often? Why? Reply to this thread wtih your opinions.

A BIG thanks to Yotiao for fixing us up.

One other thing about bass. By definition, if the note is let's say, 30hz, it means that it will resonant for 30 cycles per second. Hence, deep bass (<40hz) by default cannot just come and go like that. It should/will resonant/reverberate and shake the floor if you are using speakers. For headphones, you should feel the vibration. Most of the time, many mistake mid-bass for bass. What I mean is, in the 80-120hz range. This is usually the range of bass which gives the impact, the thumping feel. The impact on the strike of drums is in this frequency range. Most bass music is found in this range, and it is also in this range that mid-bass muddles up the midrange. So if a system has a peak here, it will tend to mask details. Next is I would like to give examples of great exponents of bass: Drums : Steve Gadd Double bass : Ray Brown Any more examples?

Let me begin by stating that I'm not a bass-head, I don't like thumping bass, I don't like disco bass, and I can live without deep bass if the mids/treble are done right, as with the AKG K501. So why is bass important? It gives music the sense of pace and rhythm. This should be quite simple to understand. If you can follow the beat of the music, then the bass has done its job. It gives the music foundation. When listening to different types of music genres, bass generally gives the music a sense of scale. The bass reverberation gives you a sense of the instrument's size, like the kick drum, tympani, double bass/cello. More bass allows you to have more treble. The folks at REL mention in the installation manual that whenever their sub was added, it allowed more detail to be heard in the upper registers. Why? I surmise it is due to balance. When addition bass and treble are added to the mix, the one does not sound out of proportion(stand out) for whatever reason. Eg. if you have too much bass, it becomes bass boom. Too much treble, and it becomes bright and fatiguing. So it is the balance of both frequency extremes that allows you to have both at the same time. What is good bass? What is bad bass? Please share your own personal experiences...

I have not noticed any peaks during the course of the listening, but then again, my threshold for HF peaks maybe higher than yours, so best to have a listen for yourself. Also the Grado range of headphones is very wide and as you go up the ladder, the treble/bass gets more refined. Depending on which Grado you reference to, certainly the result would be different. The closest Grado would be the RS1 with Todd's flat pads. Maybe I should end here with a quick summary: Highs - pristine, not harsh, though on bad recordings- good luck. Mids - excellent tonal accuracy, decay, full bodied Bass - deep, tight, full of impact/dynamics If you want to know what exactly is going on in each recording, try these. They will highlight every pimple, mole and wrinkle, leaving nothing to chance. Unforgiving - yes, but then faithful to the source, so every upgrade you put into the upstream components will yield results. It is that reveiling. Badly recorded material will likewise be shown as that, bad, so be careful with the partnering equipment. So how do you know what is neutral? Have a listen to the MS Pro for the answer.

First off, some chamber music... Beethoven Kreutzer Violin Sonata Argerich/Perlman XRCD Live recording of their performance at the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, USA, 30 July 1998. EMI XRCD 7243 8 26769 2 What happens when you put together 2 of the very best artistes and they perform one the great violin sonatas in a live environment? Wonderful music making! This is a truely great performance and with a live recording, there is no hiding mistakes. Equally you get full dynamics and unprocessed music. Unfortunately you also get people coughing in the background, but thankfully that doesn't occur too much. Every once in a while, when the stars and the moon are aligned just right, the music just soars touching the heart and soul. Perlman's Stradivarius sounds sublime as he races across the notes. The notes are singular in tone, sweet, and smooth when necessary, and brash and abrasive when called upon. They carry like a lark, over the piano's interposed accompaniment. The piano's gradations in micro dynamics are mixed with such delicacy that it forms a near perfect blend with the violin. When the bass notes of the piano are struck, you know it is a grand piano, no doubt about it. Listening to something like this is very emotionally draining as it demands so much attention, yet at the end, you are rewarded with a satisfaction unlike anything else, that you bath in the genius of that great composer, Beethoven. Next some orchestral Rimsky-Korsakov "Dance of the tumblers" Mussorgsky-Ravel "Pictures at the exhibition-Baba Yaga, Great Gate at Kiev" Eiji Oue, Minnesota Orchestra RR906CD Orchestral Sampler Those of you familar with Reference Recordings quality, will know that these are among the best recordings on digital you can find. Much effort was put into mic selection/placement just to ensure that the whole procedings are captured as faithfully as possible. Here the scale of the orchestra is shown in its full glory, there is no blurring in the mid-bass, trumpets/cornets blaring in the finale with the percussion and tympani beating makes one fantastic climax. There is no holding back as the orchestra goes into fff. The soundstage, though not as expansive as the Beyer DT990 or the AT W100, still manages to protray front-back perspective very clearly. In terms of soundstage presentation, this would be classified as quite near field, in the first few rows. Close, and still enjoyable.

Part II - darn, I lost what I typed just now which was quite a bit. So I will have to save and edit on and off. Please have patience. Equipment: CEC TL2>>SlinkyLinks AES/EBU>>Benchmark DAC1>>SlinkyLinks RCA>>Diva headamp Generally I've found the SlinkyLinks silver interconnects to be the best IC I've ever heard. They are just fast, natural sounding, with cystaline highs and decay, deep and tight bass which all sounds just natural. Everything was plugged into the PS Audio P300 re-generating a pure Sinewave. Powercords used in the digital end were the JPS Digital powercords. Specifications(from the Alessandro website): Transducer type: Dynamic Operating principle: Open air Frequency response: 12 - 30k Hz SPL lmV: 98 Nominal impedance: 32 Ohms Driver match db: 0.05 Features: - Vented diaphragm - Mahogany air chamber - UHPLC voice coil wire - UHPLC connecting cord Each time I read the specs, I wonder to myself, 12hz? Are they serious? Driver matching to 0.05db?!!! Most speaker manufacturers would be happy with 0.5db. On to the music: Coldplay "Rush of blood to the head" Track 4 The Scientist The first notes from the piano start the rhythm with a melancholic repeating theme with the piano strikes and the decay hinting that this is an old upright piano, yet when the lead vocal comes in, he is singing to you and you only. His voice dead centre, intimate, hair-raising stuff. The keyboards in the background come in and support as the guitar strums away on the left. Then the drums kick in and the background vocals join in with in the minor key as the music gradually gains pace and loudness. You cannot expect too much of a soundstage with these modern recordings, but the instrumental separation and tone are real. You can crank up the volume on these cans and they won't crack(distort), more likely your ears will go way before that. Great stuff! Thoroughly enjoyable. Diana Krall "Girl in the other room" Track 3 Temptation and what a temptation she presents. The double bass kicks off the pace with some nice plucking that gets your foot tapping. Diana sings with this laid back style which is oh so alluring, mesmerizing. This recording is really first rate. The soundstage on the recording is very clearly separated with the piano far left, electric guitar left, double bass and drums back, percussion and keyboards right. At 2:46 into the track, there a deep bass hit which just shows you how deep the bass on these cans go. On this track, the bass/drums provide the rhythm and that is well demonstrated here. Asian Roots "Take Dake" Track 6 Japanese Roots If you ever want to test bass, this is one of the reference discs. On this CD, you not only hear the note, you hear lots of harmonics in between. The strike of the drums, the impact of the first hit, and the decay. The skin of the instrument and the body of the instrument. There clarity. There is pace and rhythm. And if you want to know if you can swing with the music, wait till 5:00, and if you can groove with the baliphone, you've got it. Now for some classical pieces.

Err...what's up with the server now? The background is white and the smilies don't appear, text font is also funny...

This is a review of the MS Pros which I will put down over a couple of installments given the difficulty in putting down all my thoughts on this can. They are difficult to fault, so we shall see how this progresses... Some weeks before While I've been a fan of the Grado 325 and the 325i, I wanted to grab a set of the MS2i when I found out that Alessandro had a local dealer. Considering that it was quite hard to find these on the international market, to have a local dealer was a God-send. I had been bugging/begging Wilson to bring the MS2s in for weeks, to the point that I had almost given up. Until...I got a msg from him saying they were in. I promptly asked him to do start running them in, knowing that they were sound raw out of the box. Day 2 of their arrival I told Charismatic that they were in and that I was heading down for a quick listen. I got there early and whipped out my CDs and my Benchmark DAC1 and after some fiddling with the wires, got down to listening. The MS2s were still a bit raw after the what had to be a short time connected. My eye chanced upon these wooden MS Pros sitting on the next table which got me curious as to how they were sound. My previous encounters with step-brother, RS1, were less than favourable until I heard tbln's with Todd's flat pads, so my expectations were not high. My first impression when listening to them were like "Mmm...this is better, less rough, but it should be better for the money". Day 4-5 I revisited Wilson and got the usual warm welcome and was "left to my own devices". Hoping that the MS2s were now run in, I heard them through his setup and still felt that something was missing. They were smoother than before, but still, after listening to the 325i at MBD on their hi-end rig, I was expecting more of the MS2. Then I exchanged the MS2 for its bigger brother, the MS Pro and what a surprise I was in for. The music was more inviting, drawing me in for the "kill". This is like fishing, you entice the fish by making the bait tempting. I naturally spent more time with the MS Pros thinking to myself, this IS good. Switching back and forth between the other cans available there seemed to all but confirm my findings. These cans were really good, and there was something special about them which warranted a proper listen. Darn, I just couldn't let go of it. I asked Wilson for the price and the rest is history... My criteria for selection Low impedence - for portable sources Hi resolution Quick/fast sound - good PRaT which is Pace Rhythm and Timing Now the fun begins I took the MS Pros which were being used for auditions, so they were already partially run-in, though I would say that as they are, there was really not much need for an extended run-in. I first plugged them into the Benchmark's outputs and listened to a host of music, from small chamber pieces to orchestral, to Diana Krall, Pink Martini, and so far I've hardly been disappointed. akan datang...

As a general rule, I'd say support the local audio industry. Its already a very "exclusive" club with few members. Without our support, we might lose what we have here which is much better than many other countries. Saving a couple of bucks this way isn't really worth it IMO.

Sigh... why didn't you masked me too... You cannot hide lah!

See some familar faces, mosaic can't hide. Great work organising this event, Yotiao, and Wilson for his generosity.