Original CD Vs Backup CD Showdown!

[idkfa 0]

Hi Guys,

 

I did an AB test on Mika Nakashima's Best album using the Original CD Vs Burned CD Copy last night. (I blindfolded myself, mixed up both the CDs and then played them on the PCDP for AB testing) After 30mins of continuous and concentrated listening on the same part of the song on both the CDs(original & copied), I totally couldn't find a single difference or maybe I didn't know where to look. I even mistaken the Copied CD for the Original CD at one point. Mental differences Yes, Audible differences, No.

 

I know that there are certain audible differences between say, Singapore and China Pressing CDs but so far, I couldn't hear any difference with my Original Vs Copied version. Anyone can kindly advice?

 

Please note that this thread is not to encourage "copying" your best friend's CDs but rather I'm Backing-Up whatever CDs I bought.

 

References:

Burning Software: NeroBurn 6 (burn speed slowest 8X)

CD-R Media: Taiyo Yuden (That's)

CD: Mika Nakashima BEST (Jap Pressing)

Source: Technics SL-S30

Cable: RnB180 White Diamond mini-mini

Amp: SuperMacro V1

Cans: Etymotics ER-4s

[neutralzz 0]

i realised some things are pretty psychological too..

 

burning might not.. cause much of a difference.. lens's still picking up those reflections and process them into binary figures 0110010101010110101 and what not lol

 

possible differences might be stuff like static or burn error etc maybe..

 

i've done the same before, but i use black cdrs most of the time.. its psychological that black cdrs seem to make things sound.. BETTER.. but.. blind test cant note too

[idkfa 0]

Ok, I've discovered a new term for this phenomenal effect with compliments to Head-Fi or Hi-Fi.

 

It's called Psy-Fi. (I want to believe)

[yongchris 0]

Psy-Fi : The Truth is Out There!

[lekguan 0]

I did copy a few CDs from original before into Melody Black Diamond, burning them at 4x, and I did hear some differences. Psychological or not, I can't tell you, but....

I've heard lots of good stuff about the Melody Black Diamond then. When I copied, the difference that I heard made me feel that it was warmer sounding than the original most of the time. Too warm, in fact, as compared to what I like. So I was thinking, if it was purely psychological, then with so many preconceptions about the CD-R being good, I shouldn't have found something that I didn't like, should I? No idea, just giving my opinion here.... And yeah, I didn't do any blind test, so...

 

Oh yes my source I used was the Marantz CD6000ose. And IMO you should try with a good source, a pair of cans instead of canalphones. To me, canalphones are detailed, but not exactly transparent. I somehow feel they are more forgiving towards the source compared to full sized cans. And try with lousy pressings, I think that way the difference will be more obvious.

Edited December 30, 2005 by lekguan

[Mackie 0]

idkfa: I applaud your move in trying to seek the truth of a certain point. U did most things right except for two things....the system to "unlock" the truth and the conclusion.

 

Firstly, the reason why hifi can cost mere hundreds to a million albeit with depreciating returns, is not purely prestige nor brand but also sound quality and resolution. In this case, the latter is crucial if one wanna listen to every subtle nuance in the source. You may not hear the difference between the original and copied copies through your pcdp, but that does not mean it aint there. Carry out a test in a good speakers system and the difference can be quite obvious. In my experience, burnt copies tend to sound less airy and also loses a bit on bass resolution. It's not a day and night of difference but it's audible. Actually, it's easier to tell the difference between presses of the same CD. In my findings, Japanese press tends to sound clinically clean and right, Chinese press varies but usually leans toward the upper spectrum and prone to distortion in climatic passages. Singapore press usually sound bright. Malaysian press sound less transparent and sometimes congested. Usually, the contest is between US and Japan press as quality is assured but subjected to personal perference.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Mackie

[Rameish 0]

Try it on a home CDP and I'm certain you'll hear the difference (actual not psychological at all). I did the blindfold test sometime back (with a friend who swapped the discs - sometime he swapped and sometimes all he did was removed the disc and put back the same disc so that I could hear the disc being put into the cdp). I could tell the difference. Then it was the turn of my non-audiophile friend and even he could hear the difference. BTW I have 43 year-old ears so. The only thing that could have improved is the CD burning software - maybe things have indeed improved very drastically over the last year or so but you will never know until you play it thru a full fledged CDP.

 

I guess for portable playback on not very revealing headphones it's ok.

 

 

BTW I prefer american pressed CDs because they sound more natural to me. Japan pressed CDs esp the XRCD tend to sound a bit hyper IMO but others simply love it. Where possible I try to stay away from sg, mal, korean, Euro pressed cds. But sometimes it's not possible.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Rameish

[evil-zen 0]

I wonder if some of you guys are copying cds in the best way. I doubt Nero or even other software can do the ripping as well as EAC. There are 2 steps to copying a cd. First, you have to rip. Second, burning. As far as copying is concerned, I think ripping is far more crucial than burning.

 

Use EAC to do the ripping. Then u can use any programs like Nero or even EAC to burn the wav files created. It might be harder to configure than the other programs but you only need to configure it once. Just make sure you rip Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache. Then copy it either by Copy Image and create cuesheet or just copy.

 

As for different presses, it is highly possible that mastering is different. ie European vs American vs Japanese. As far as I know, XRCDs are all remastered, mostly brighter than other versions.

[idkfa 0]

Hello guys and Happy New Year!

 

I think this thread is rather interesting cos I know there will be lots of different responses. I didn't know that presses of different countries have that great a difference. Let's not talk China and Japan presses but Malaysia, Singapore, States...on so on?? That is pretty good to learn.

 

Also I know someone's gonna go for my weak source. I know that I am using a PCDP but I really can't commit to too many large equipment because it's not like I have a permanent home in Singapore. It's a nightmare moving house a few times in a year. As minimal as I can. I do agree that a dedicated home CDP might prove me wrong easily and I seriously will not be any surprised. But until then, my story now goes to what I am using.

 

I will look out for the black cds as recommended and give them another showdown.

Lekguan<< I deliberately used the Etys to do this comparison because of the detail that I can get out of those buds. I really thought that they were most transparent for a earphone and very revealing too. Could you re-advice me on your statement?

 

Mackie<<Don't say appluad me lah. You make me sound silly also. I just happen to be free and want to find out how different they can get. Not seeking any truths like mulder lah. I guess there I can never say how the cds differ cos I got no "good" reference systems. If based on what I have and am using now, perhaps it's safe to say that they make no difference on this level of setup of mine unless I get myself a reference system and prove me wrong?

 

On a different note, isn't there a point where people are no longer enjoying the music but simply battling to nitpick the differences with their music? Surely, there must be a point where enjoyment meets stress. I seriously don't know what is the percentage of head-fiers truly listening and enjoying music on their couches these days. Some of them just seem to be doing some stringent sonic tests and assessments in a laboratory based on what I read in Head-Fi Forums. On the other hand, I just love the excitement when a newbie gets hold of his sub $100 Grados or Shures and realises the "wow" factor. But this doesn't mean that I do not enjoy audiophile sound. I am actually glad to be a better connoisseur in audio that my other soccer crazy friends. lol.

 

Rameish<<I certainly do not think it's psychological at all. It was just on a fun note that I mentioned PSY-FI. If so, I wouldn't be spending any money at all. I totally respect your opinion on this topic and will look over the points that everyone's brought up. I guess I need more time to do stringent tests. (I could finally hear the differences in cables. Boy, that certainly took me some time)

 

Meanwhile I will attempt to get hold of different presses of the same CD/differnt makes of CD-Rs/different burning techniques and go further out to seek the "truth". lol. I must remember that this is fun and should never in anyway stressing.

 

I really appreciate if more advice come along in this thread. Please talk more and again, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

[Rameish 0]

idkfa,

 

If I may speak on Mackie's behalf, he was being sincere.

 

Cheeers and Happy New Year! :-)

[idkfa 0]

idkfa,

 

If I may speak on Mackie's behalf, he was being sincere.

 

Cheeers and Happy New Year! :-)

Ramiesh<< haha This is the problem with texted messages. You can't really tell who is feeling what. lol. I am not the least upset in anyway by Mackie's signature straight forward comment lah. I really appreciate his advices! Also I'm here to learn and not to take an egotrip. No need to get stress over our hobby yea?

[lekguan 0]

I somehow find full sized cans are more transparent than IEMs. As for the black CDs, try the Melody Black Diamond, which can be found in SLS, at ATF Multimedia, about $40 for 100 pieces.

[Mackie 0]

Mackie<<Don't say appluad me lah. You make me sound silly also. I just happen to be free and want to find out how different they can get. Not seeking any truths like mulder lah.  I guess there I can never say how the cds differ cos I got no "good" reference systems. If based on what I have and am using now, perhaps it's safe to say that they make no difference on this level of setup of mine unless I get myself a reference system and prove me wrong?

 

On a different note, isn't there a point where people are no longer enjoying the music but simply battling to nitpick the differences with their music? Surely, there must be a point where enjoyment meets stress. I seriously don't know what is the percentage of head-fiers truly listening and enjoying music on their couches these days. Some of them just seem to be doing some stringent sonic tests and assessments in a laboratory based on what I read in Head-Fi Forums. On the other hand, I just love the excitement when a newbie gets hold of his sub $100 Grados or Shures and realises the "wow" factor. But this doesn't mean that I do not enjoy audiophile sound. I am actually glad to be a better connoisseur in audio that my other soccer crazy friends. lol.

 

Sigh....How I miss X Files! I agree with your findings, given the equipment you have. Similarly, I'm also revealing my discovery based on the system I have.

 

Oh yes, I do agree enjoying the music is paramount. Afterall, we don't buy hifi to oggle at its beauty but how it sounds...and also the music that we play. Bad music may sound good from recording perspective but never good for pure enjoyment. Music is equally important to me as it helps me to unwind from a stressful day in the office where numbers seem to float ala "Beautiful Mind". However, I've come across some CDs that were so badly produced I got awaken by its "climatic distortion" from a beautiful slumber!

Edited January 3, 2006 by Mackie

[Brandon.lim 0]

This is a good article on making good CD copies.

http://www.soundstageav.com/audiovideotrends/20050415.htm

 

After reading the article, my interest was piqued and I applied parallel power filtering to my PC, installed ferrite clamps on the power cord and the cable from the power supply to the Yamaha CD-RW F-1 drive. Both the CDRW drive and the PC power supply are covered with Stillpoint ERS cloth. CDs are ripped to the harddisk with EAC, and then burned to the CD with Nero.

 

I do find that CD-R copies produced this way do result in a tangible improvement in the sound quality, mainly to the focus and depth. These conclusions were derived from my own testing as well as blind testing with a non-audiophile (my sister-in-law).

 

However, if the mastering quality is bad, the CD-R copy will also sound bad. Thats just the way it is.

[soulmad 0]

hmm my way of making copies of music CD:

 

rip WAV file using EAC===simulate the WAV and CUE using DAEMON TOOLS===use CLONE CD to copy " on the fly" from the simulated drive

 

and i am satisfied with the quality of the copies.