Going balanced: My journey with The Apache

[ting.mike 0]

balanced.. balanced... balanced... it keeps on calling me.

 

 

[kidult 0]

u & sep90 can hold hands togather

he oso keep hearing .... balanced, balanced

[ting.mike 0]

yea... I am split in between of a balanced b22 or the CEC HD53N.

 

Balanced B22 probably has the upper hand in SQ, being the amp that is recognized worldwide for its quality. However, the overall package of the CEC and the nice CEC casework might push me to that direction as well.

 

oh, and Balanced B22 is not going to be cheap.. 4 gang attenuators, 1 extra b22 board, 1 extra s22 board. maybe close to another $500.

 

 

 

[ical 0]

balanced.. balanced... balanced... it keeps on calling me.

 

You bump all these old threads just for this.

Edited July 6, 2009 by ical

[theory_87 0]

You bump all these old threads just for this.

increase post count.

[ting.mike 0]

You bump all these old threads just for this.

 

 

dude chill!!

 

I haven't been to the forum in months man. If it's wrong to post in old forums, might as well delete threads older than one month.

 

 

increase post count.

 

 

and what do I get with increased post count?

 

maybe I do it to get some discussions on balanced set up?

 

the skepticism is appalling.

 

Edited July 7, 2009 by ting.mike

[theory_87 0]

To hit 50 post so to be able to post in classified. Anyway What headphone inventory that you have that prompt you to go balance? I notice an increase interest in balance setup with LD new range of equipment and B22 recently

[blackmouth0 0]

well, i think his post are just harmless anyway, yea, back to topic, what make you really want to go balance?

[ting.mike 0]

I own a bunch of headphones, but I really really want to make HD650 balanced. I heard the HD800, but I like HD650 much better. Esp when I drove it using speaker amp.. bwahahaah talk about a fast HD650! I think the neutral HD800 can't ever match the HD650 impact/slam -- and that's more important to me than anything else.

 

So why balanced?

I have a balanced source (CEC CDP)

and I have some pretty hi end balanced IC (Transparent cables)

and since I have a 3 boards b22, all I really need is to add another b22 board, another s22 board, and a balanced attenuator, and voila -- fully balanced!

 

The thing is, as I said, whilst the b22 is a world-class amp, the overall package of the CEC HD53N is very appealing to me. I think power wise it's also comparable to the b22. 50V toroidal, able to power speakers, etc. All in a nice fairly compact, high build quality case. (Can't ever match that with DIY build)

 

I think the key to a great sounding HD650 is an amp with a lot of power.

 

I ran the HD650 from a 300wpc mosfet adcom power, with a passive pre connected to the CEC CDP, and the sound was so fast and with impact! Think Grado like speed, combined with HD650 impact. Beethoven Symphonies was heavenly. Oh, and positioning of instruments was... phenomenal. Gotta A/B with the HD800 on this department.

 

 

Cheers

Edited July 7, 2009 by ting.mike

[tbln 0]

Glad to see that we are all getting back to the topic at hand.

 

It has been quite a while since my last post and the resurrection of my 'old' threads is a timely reminder for me to update my impressions and share my thoughts since then.

 

Having travelled the long road from my first eargasm with the Etymotic ER4S to my current experiences with both single-ended tube and solid state balanced systems, these are some of my observations:

 

1. Sonic preferences are not universal and what sounds good to one person may not necessarily float anothers boat. Try if listen first and not get caught up in the hype. I have owned and heard headphones and systems that others have raved about that have not moved me much. The Grado GS1000 comes to mind.

 

2. Price is, unfortunately, not an indicator of quality. System matching is critical. A well matched single-ended system can provide a listening experience that can rival poorly coordinated balanced ones.

 

3. Get the basics correct before spending too much on tweaks. It may sound like a cliche, but garbage in garbage out. Get a good source and build your rig around it. Tweaks like power cords, conditioning, interconnects, footers do make a difference (believer here ), but they cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

4. Synergy is critical. I have had eureka moments when headphones I have been about to give up on suddenly came to life when paired with another system.

 

5. All things being equal, I have found a balanced system (balanced source -> balanced amp -> balanced headphones) to provide a more engaging listening experience. Benefits I have noticed include a wider headstage, more accurate staging and better bass resolution. I will be the first to admit that the differences are not night and day and rationally, the additional costs outweigh the benefits. But, hey, isn't it this way with all things audio?

 

I would like to also remind everyone to ask why we got into this hobby and not get too caught up with the equipment. Enjoy the music!

 

As always, these are my observations and views.

 

Peace.

Edited July 7, 2009 by tbln

[theory_87 0]

ting.mike, nice care to educate me on how to match impedance on your speaker amp? (I'm assuming you are using the speaker out). I Know how to make the connector but not matching impedance

[ting.mike 0]

Thanks, tbln!

 

I totally agree with no.1-5, and I prolly want to add #6: I gotta hear the gear personally before making judgements and/or commitments.

 

For example, all the hype surrounding the HD800 really got me too, and I really thought that this is the headphone that would end my journey. But after auditioning the HD800 along with Omega2, HD650, HP1000, I do think that the Omega2 is milestones above the rest, whilst I personally prefer the HD650 to the HD800.

 

Now that my SE beta22 is done (though I haven't listened to it), I guess I should hang on to it and get a grip on how it sounds. But I really know that a full balanced config is not that far in my future. Therefore I really want to have a chance to audition a balanced beta22.

 

The beta22 is said to be wire with gain, like the GS-X.

Another amp that i'm looking at is the Apache. I love RSA's SR71a paired with a wide variety of phones, including the HD650, and I suspect that the Apache will give similar sound with much higher refinement.

 

I guess I'm asking for an audition.

 

Cheers.

 

[ting.mike 0]

ting.mike, nice care to educate me on how to match impedance on your speaker amp? (I'm assuming you are using the speaker out). I Know how to make the connector but not matching impedance

 

I did some research on impedance matching, and here is what I found:

1. Antique Sound Labs made a unit that does this, and for a reasonable price of $200. Unfortunately, I read that they have been discontinued, and that I don't really know the schematics behind it. ASL

 

2. Impedance matching is needed so that your amp's supply of power won't be restrained. (When your impedance is not matched, the amp can't deliver the maximum power that it's actually capable of). In my case, I use a 300wpc mosfet adcom. I discussed this with an amp designer, and he said that I don't really need impedance matching. I have plenty of power. I think an amp with 60 to 70 watts @ 8 ohms can probably give enough power for headphones, without impedance matching.

 

3. There is a schematic that Joseph Grado drew for connecting headphones to speaker amps. I gotta find a link to it somewhere. Basically he paralleled the headphone to a 2 ohm resistor -- so the resulting impedance is roughly 1.8~1.9 ohms. Then he added a 20 ohms resistor in serial. The end result is the amp sees a ~22 ohms headphones. Why didn't he make it 8 ohms? I guess if you match to 8 ohms you'll blow up the headphones very easily. Here is the diagram:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

 

4. Rod Elliott also came up with a design, quite simple, but I never really tried to make it. Link

 

 

Here is the discussion thread on HC: Link.

 

As you probably know, other headphones like the K340 and K1000 are recommended to be driven off speaker amps.