Firstly, let me tell you all that if you want to get ES cables for your super.fi, becareful if you get it at jaben!

Reason is because Jaben may not bother to help you trim it down, they simply stuff it into the interconnects. What happens is that the plugs are permanently damaged.

I cannot vouch that this is what happens everytime, but at least when i wanted to do mine there, this is what they wanted to do for me.

That's not all. A user was complaining on Jaben forum that his cables are loose after switching back to the old superfi cables, and i wanted to let him know the possible reason.

This is what i posted.



This is the thread i posted in. And after a while, when i went back to check for response, my post and my account was deleted! Infact, all my previous posts and contribution to the forum were deleted!!!!

I feel that Jaben provides good service, but if they made a mistake, they should not try and cover up in this way. My impression of them went down the drain and i will never buy anything from them again.

Just want to let you guys know. I'm not saying they are bad, but it's up to you to judge.

I guess you should complain directly to the boss, Uncle Wilson. Jaben's forum is meant to promote their products and services so I am not surprised that your post got deleted.

I agree, if you went direct to the boss it might be better.

it's not unusual for forums with a certain agenda to delete posts which are contrary to that agenda. Nonetheless, a hallmark of a mature and responsible business is being able to openly admit its faults and rectify them when pointed out, or be able to defend them publicly if the allegations are unfounded. To this extent, it's quite disappointing that this has happened.

How would you like it if someone would have an issue with you or your work and went to your own forum and complain without even checking with you? Anyway, most if not all forums don't tolerate complaints about their sponsors. This is not coverup, it's just plain business sense. Jaben has built one of the best reputations in the business and I can understand that they want to protect it.

This is what is known as vested interest. Strange that Jaben is sponsoring "Jaben Network" with the forum and such, and how is Wilson able to be impartial (human and business nature) when forumers make negative remarks on his service or products? Something is terribly wrong here

If you ask me, it's like what Japan has done, cover up their past mistake by removing all records of it ever happening.

Let's not jump to conclusions here that what happened was done with Wilson's consent. There's lot of young people in Jaben helping Wilson and I say, the right thing to do is to talk to Wilson. Let's not be the prosecutor, judge and jury without hearing out the defence.

surely the moderators could have at least tried to contact Jaben to deal with dcarter's specific complaint, rather then delete his entire account and pretend he was never a customer? Where is the after sales service here?

Could just be that the company isn't working closely enough with the forum. Nonetheless, I don't think we can blame dcarter for not bringing this up directly with Jaben. Jaben's own forum, imho, is a very legitimate place to post a complaint about a product you bought from the shop!


*that said, I've had some very good after sales service from Wilson. I mean very very good, but I made alot of noise, and kept it private, which is how we Chinese do it.

Deleted.

dcarter, your sig looks suspicious.. Are you trying to spam?

Deleted

Please don't drag unrelated issues into the thread. If you have something against me, pm me.




Actually. I'm not the one who has the issue. I managed to stop them before they stuffed it in without trimming.

The thread, which i posted in, was started by another person, and i merely wanted to point out the reason his cable is loose.

Also, it isn't loose when you insert a westone cable, but if you try to use back the original cable, it will be loose.




I'm not trying to spam. It's just a MO thread.

I read the rules and regulation and there is no mention that i cannot have WTS/WTB/WTT/MO thread links in my signature.

However, as i'm quite new to this forum, if there are any unstated rules which prohibits me from doing so, i'll edit it out in a jiffy.

Whatever the case, I have no interest in pursuing this matter but all I wish to point out is there're proper ways of raising such issues and this is clearly one of the less desirable options. We are a small community and there is really no need to blow things out of proportion. Furthermore, this forum is a place intended for like minded enthusiasts to discuss our hobby and not for heated exchanges. Thus as a gesture of my sincerity in keeping this forum conducive for other members, I will remove all my posts in these thread and on headphonehaven and hence refrain from commenting on this issue.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and I am in no way bearing a grudge against you as I don't even know you at all to begin with. I just want you to know that posting such a misleading and potentionally defamatory thread title will win you no favours. Peace.

Regards,

Nofing

*Spelling errors edited.

People lets put a lock on this thread. This has nothing to do with us. If you run a shop, you run the risk of unhappy customers and have the joy of happy ones. No cover up or conspiracy theories please. Lets leave it at that.

Its rather extreme for Jaben to do something like that, dcarter, though I think the Jaben forum is super lame.
Why not tell everyone your past Jaben forum user name? Since you sound like you are a active member with your "previous contributions", I am sure there are people around that would have heard/seen you at least.

I'd just like to say that we should not try too hard to put an end to threads just because they are unpleasant. dcarter has made his complaint, and we get to hear from the point of views from other's who've had experience with the seller. It's really the same thing as buyer/seller feedback.

So long as they don't descend into senseless flaming, such threads are actually very useful. This is after all a consumer-oriented forum and it is in our interest that the credibility of sellers etc are discussed. To this extent I think alot of the criticisms levelled at dcarter have been unwarranted and unfair.

And really, shops have everything to do with us, and that's why there are bodies like CASE which protect consumer interests. Not saying that this is a situation which requires their attention, but the principle is the same; dcarter has every right tell us about his unhappy experience. If a shop has treated you badly I would like to know about it, so I can be careful.

so thanks dcarter! hope you can get your problem sorted amicably.

THATS FREAKING TRUE.
Agree totally with you, loop_
It almost feels like certain people are "covering up" for Jaben while shooting at dcarter. Well, thats to me.

While this might not be the best platform to seek redress, I agree with loop that it is in the interest of our members to keep this thread open as long as discussions remain civil.

Well if this is allowed:
http://jaben.net/forums/index.php?topic=1171.0

Man to man.. if he has the guts to speak face to face.

People against or with can come..haha

Which I think its really true.. he has been creating havoc in quite a few forums.. usually regards to commercial selling. If this forum were to be by a specific company, it would probably be another target.

Deleted. Forgot I said I wouldn't have anything more to do with this issue. There really is no need to further fan the flames. Just let dcarter do his thing by following the above link and then update us accordingly. Peace.

If you see Wilson's post, what he has pointed out is:

1. I post under many alias, e.g. Adam, Delano Carter, DC, Dcarter, Torxxx. But the truth is, my name is Delano Adam Carter. And my nick name is torxxx. These are not aliases, these are my name!

2. I have contacted CrossRoads to ask for samples. Okay, I admit i was a cheapo.

3. I have emailed Jaben, and ask why amazon.com can sell cheaper. He said he chooses distributor, based on many factors, other than just lowest price. I accepted and never replied/bugged him again.

4. I have a MO thread in HWZ which helps ppl get stuff cheaper than Jaben. But i'm sure everyone knows the point of MO is not to profit, but to share shipping costs. I am not a direct competitor!!

5. He did not address why my comment was deleted. Instead, he challenges you to "Search through all the threads in the forum and draw your own conclusions.".

6. He did not acknowledge my positive contribution to his forum before this post.

Again, i do not like to go into such confrontational situation with people. I am merely highlighting that Jaben deleted my post. I'm quite surprise this matter has blown out of proportion, because it was never my intention.

I also see that Jaben is quite unhappy over this line in my signature, which says, "Earphones definitely cheaper than Jaben's special price!". I will be removing it out of goodwill, as i see no point in aggravating anyone, who does not believe in a capitalistic free economy, further .

Lastly, i wish to know what questionable methods i have used, as claimed by Wilson in his statement, "but it must be at the expense of hard work and not questionable methods".

And what about your like feedback on headphonehaven and how your WTS thread was locked?

"I'm quite surprise this matter has blown out of proportion, because it was never my intention."

Think about how your actions have landed you in your current situation dcarter/torx.

Honestly, this is not bad publicity for me, but for Jaben.

Oh forget it. I rest my case. Seriously, I've nothing to gain from constantly bickering with you. Jaben has a right to protect its reputation when unjustly attacked. And since Wilson has offered an olive branch, the choice is yours.

Also, strange that there has been no clear evidence of the supposed 'damaged' sf5p eh? Just a thought there dcarter, there's no need for you to reply to it. Peace.

Again, i never said there is a SF5pro that is damaged. I suggested it could be damaged.

The SF5pro does not belong to me, but to the threadstarter, and i am merely suggesting the reasons why it is loose.

The thread which i posted in, does not belong to me. I was simply helping out the threadstarter, natty135, in suggesting reasons why his socket is loose when using the original cables.

Here is his post:



Edit: I am not bickering with you, really, i hope you don't see it that way. You posted a statement, and i posted my reply to it. It's just how a normal discussion goes if you ask me. I am not targetting you or flaming you in particular.

I totally agree...

My ue5 was also damaged after changing to es2 cables at jaben.. it became loose but i didnt paid much attention to it. Soon after the cable and the earpiece came apart. Mine is under warrenty but he said that they might charge me as they say this might be a case of wear and tear.
I thought it was my fault =/ Well maybe it is.
The set is with them now. Waiting for them to get back to me.

UE5 customs? Cool. How do those sound?

Oppz.. lol not so rich la.. Mine is ue Super.fi 5. ps =X
Since this topic was talking about superfi i thought i just write short form ue5 =x

I see...But I've ever seen UE customs with Westone cables anyway. I'm wondering why you would want to change your cable back to the original one? Personally I find the Westone cable to best the UE one in every aspect be it usability, sound, microphonics, etc.

No i didnt change it back, for my case i changed my original one to westone cable. My orignal was getting green and it gave me some problems..

That means the casing got loose with the Westone cable inside? That would be very strange because the Westone cable's a tighter fit than the UE one.

I think most people change to westone course of higher impedance, but since the customs one already have very high impedance, there's no point in changing to any other cables.

Yes, totally, out of topic, but just thought i'd point it out. =)

Well, the only thing I can tell from this is Jaben forum is lame as hell.
Pathetic.


EDIT: Adding other things about the forum.. You can probably think of them.

Nicely balanced and well thought out criticism ezzo Are we now going from Jaben bashing to jaben.net bashing? If you think that forum is lame why not suggest improvements? Why do we need three forums on the same subject in a small country like Singapore?

Hmm. Things seems to be hotting up.....can we please cool down?

I really like Uncle Wilson and his way of running Jaben. So, I am totally unconvinced by dcarter's claim of poor service by Jaben.

As for forums, I agree that we don't need 3 forums. But in practice, we just have to accept that this is the way it will be. Some people just cannot accept others who do not think like them. I also find that the jaben.net forum is not exactly to my taste but I don't feel a need to slam the forum.

I think those who are younger and less mature tends to be more radical in their expression of their opinions. And I think this radical style of expressions turns off those who are not into arguments and just want to discuss things audio.

Perhaps this why the more senior members tend to keep quiet nowadays. For me, I think we need to tolerate the more radical members but we still need to moderate our expressions in order to prevent discomforting those not into flamewars.

Any forum is a community of like-minded people. So, let's try to stick to what is the common factor in all of us here, ie love for music and the audio equipment.

Well said!!
X 2

If only it was that easy heady...To each his own I guess. Shan't bother to convince the ignorant otherwise anyway. Just look at the state of echoloft, the 'oldies' there aren't in any better shape than their portable counterparts. Lol.

Hi,

Just want to say i won't be reading or replying in this thread anymore. But before i leave, i just want to summarize the events and put some closing thoughts.

Summary of the events:
On the 3 November, I was reading natty135's thread on Jaben.net whereby he was saying that his Super.fi's socket was loose, after changing back from the Westone cables.



For those who are not aware, there's been a practice of "modding" super.fis by replacing the stock cables with westone's. There are two methods to go about doing this.
1. Trim the westone's pin so they will fit in nicely.
2. Jam the pins in, which will make the socket permanently bigger, and in a way, damaged.
From my own experience, and from other's, the people at Jaben have used method 2. Again, it may not be done this way all the time, as i cannot confirm.

Back to the thread, after reading natty's post, I immediately suspected that Jaben has used method 2 on his super.fi, as a result, when he use back the stock cables, it feels loose.

So i posted this in response:


and went on to read the other threads.

When i got back, i couldn't find my reply. Puzzled, i reposted thinking my internet was giving problems. I refreshed the page, and my nickname changed to guest. I went back to the previous threads i posted in, and lo and behold, they all showed "guest" in place of my nickname. That was when i realised, i was being deleted!.

I refreshed the page again, and now i'm seeing my previous posts being deleted. Thread after thread, my posts were deleted. Frankly, It was done with such speed and efficiency, it reminded me of George Orwell's 1984.

Exasperated, i went to headphonehaven and posted my account of this incident. Again, i went to read after stuff, came back, refreshed, "page not found"! Totally, exasperated, i immediately suspected ahdui of deleting my thread and fired off a nasty pm to him, accusing him of being in cahoots with Jaben. Then i proceeded to sgheadphones to post my thread, hoping that my thread will not be deleted again.

However, little did i know, ahdui only moved my thread to another section. Realising my folly after reading his pm, i quickly sent him an apology.

I have to say that ahdui has been most kind in dealing with my accusations. Infact, i also have to give him special mention for being rational and partial.

While i have been flamed countless times, i feel that sgheadphones and headphonehaven are one of the more sensible and mature forums i have visited. I sincerely thank all the forumites for their constructive comments, be it against me or with me. I think at the end of the day, i'm glad my threads did not end up in pointless flamewars.

As for Jaben.net, Wilson has decided to question my credibility and accusing me of hiding behind nicknames and alias, and using "questionable methods" to compete with him.

All i can say is that, nicknames are nicknames. They are meant to hide identity on the net. Moreover, i have only one nickname, torxxx, the rest, dcarter, delano carter, delano adam carter, they are my name. =) It's funny how some accuse you of using alias, when it's really your name. By the way, i am a chinese. Just a chinese with ang moh name. Ask my parents why!

Regarding competing with him using "questionable methods", i have nothing to say. Simply to put it, i do not compete with him through my mass orders. The most important aim in my mass orders, is to split the exorbitant shipping costs for everyone including myself. I do not add "handling cost" or whatsoever, in order to profit from those who order from me.

Another reason is because i have an underused amazon prime subscription (which gives me free 2 day expedite shipping on all orders), which i hope to make full use of by helping others order.

In closing, I just want to say that I do not have anything against Wilson or Jaben. I do not hate them, and i certainly do not have anything to gain by putting them down. Infact, I'd go on to say that Jaben has a great reputation, and this isolated incident should no way be used to judge them.

I just want to let people know that it's better to trim and change the cables yourself, and Jaben.net has tried to cover up this particular incident.

So that's the whole story as i see it. Feel free to post your own. =)

D. carter

Whatever your story is now dcarter glad to know you're going to let this matter rest too. Good luck in your future entrepreneurial endeavors!

Well, if anyone want to know what I was saying about you can take a look at what I wrote on another post here
I did not see a need to write it again, but since people are questioning it.
Regardless,



Sigh. I definately see I need to defend youngsters and that includes myself.
Heady, there is no need that bring that in.
Less mature/younger = radical?
Calling youngsters radical is as good as calling old people old-fashioned (thinking, mindset, clothes, etc etc)
You probably do not want people to use that to aim at old people.
The bottom line is, it is just different perspectives.

ezzo,
I did not say younger = radical views or opinions. I said younger = radical expression. There is a difference between the two. It means I may agree with your view but I won't express it in the same way. Regards.

dcarter,
I appreciate your thoughtful gesture in not continuing your arguments in this thread. Regards.

My bad, no hard feelings.

I had one negative experience at Jaben. Wilson was overseas then, and his shop was run by the 2 guys. One of them was in a very bad mood that day. Needless to say, I didn't get a a very good reception.

Amazingly, I got comments from others saying that it was "customer dissatisfaction" rather than any wrongdoing by the Jaben staff. How it was my fault that other people have personal problems is beyond my understanding. What's the point of asking that so-called troublemaker torx to go down in front of a Jaben crowd? If you like a shop, whatever negative/undesirable things that they do are automatically the customer's fault.

Another example of people defending the shop they like. This involves a PC case modding shop. The shopowner promised the job done in 3 days. The customer gave him 10 days. It still wasn't done. Another reply of "customer dissatisfaction" by the fanboys.

One simple way to tell whether it's the shop's or customer's fault: when another shop does the same thing to you under the same circumstances, your reaction on the spot tells the whole story.

BTW, all my other purchases at Jaben have been very satisfactory, apart from the "customer dissatisfaction" experience. I try to go down when Wilson's around.

Well your case is different iAudio_rocks. What I and some of the others are saying is that consumer dissatisfaction over inferior or less than expected product quality should first be raised with the shop rather than expressed online.

For your case, I would not dispute your unfortunate customer service experience because everyone is human after all and everyone makes mistakes. That said, I feel that those who put the blame of poor customer service on you are not being fair to you.

Hence I hope you can understand the underlying differences and implications between yours and dcarter/torx.

On a separate note, it is of my understanding that this issue or rather this thread has ended on an amicable note so we'll just leave it as that.

actually, both incidents are based on the logic that the people we like and trust can do no wrong.

believe it or not, I'm one of the first few people involved when this whole "ES-cable on UE" craze started, and Jaben staff indeed shoved in the cable with no disclaimers or warnings given. I don't know whether they started warning the customers after the RMA rate soared. I hope they have.

EDIT: "What I and some of the others are saying is that consumer dissatisfaction over inferior or less than expected product quality should first be raised with the shop rather than expressed online. "

You're not the first and only person who's going to say this. Look at it this way, when another shop (HarveyNorman/Courts/NTUC/ColdStorage/Mac/KFC etc) made you dissatisfied, did you say anything about it on the Internet?

I don't think you've fully understood me yet. Based on your previous post, you were unhappy over poor customer service at Jaben while shopping there. While in dcarter/torx (But then again not exactly his) case, he is voicing his unhappiness with regard to Jaben not acknowledging the fact that the Westone cable damages the UE casing. Indeed, at the heart of both matters is 'customer service'.

But in your case, 'customer service' is akin to going to the bank and having a rude bank teller serve you. I hope you can see where I'm coming from. With regards to your statement that 'actually, both incidents are based on the logic that the people we like and trust can do no wrong. ', I would have to agree that yes we would have our natural bias towards certain people. But when our fair judgment is called upon, then an impartial stand has to be taken.

With regards to your last point, I am afraid to say I do not understand what you're pointing at. Because I am not one to voice my displeasure over poor customer service (Which ever way you interpret it) online. If I am unhappy with the shop, you can be sure I will make my displeasure known with them personally.

The only reason I can see for complaining online is when the shop is unresponsive or when one has decided to tarnish the shop's reputation for whatever purpose. If there's a problem, face it head on and settle things there and then.

If your behaviour towards everyone is consistent, then I applaud you for being a man and you deserve respect for that.

Yes, i do know the difference between my case and torx's. In torx's case, he was also trying to make money selling the same stuff as Jaben. And when money's involved, logic always goes out the window. Whether he has some agenda to send Jaben's reputation down the drain, I don't know. I do know everyone (Jaben and customers) got very excited over the ES-cable on UE thingy at the beginning and no one considered the possible implications. Yes, the passion for better sound. Unfortunately for JAben, torx decided to bring up this issue.

I have no doubt that Wilson genuinely wants this issue to be settled peacefully. He has always been cheerful and polite, but I can guess where his invitation to torx is heading. If torx turns up, the crowd will call him a d*ck and tell him to grow up. The thread at Jaben's forum suggests the crowd has already decided that torx has a harmful agenda. Once people have decided that you're a bad person, the reasons for your actions never, ever matter to them anymore.

Gotta agree that having dcarter/torx go down to Jaben is like sending a pig to slaughter the way people have been reacting to the incident online. However, I too concur that Wilson's intention in asking for a face to face meeting is to avoid the unpleasant side effects that may arise from conversing online.

And also, "Once people have decided that you're a bad person, the reasons for your actions never, ever matter to them anymore." Which is why it's always important to keep one's behavior in check all the time and reflect on what one's actions and words speak of oneself to avoid being in such a situation.

yep. I realise I'm supposed to conclude that torx is a bad person based on his persistance in the issue. I think he's creating a mountain out of a molehill. But even if we ignore torx and the mountain he created, there's still the issue of the molehill created by Jaben.

I remember the cable craze started from vrz. The first person who tried it DID mention that Jaben shoved the cable in. For the customers who're affected, good luck. I dont know how Wilson settled it.