W3 vs TF10Pro

[Westoner 0]

Does the W3 having the same sound signature as TF10pro?

[liuhao 0]

they are similar. TF10 is slightly more balanced and integrated from high to low.

 

but...it only takes me less than one minute to figure out that i could never wear the TF10 no matter how good it sounds. the comfort is a joke. for me, UE only makes sense when go to custom.

[ericschmerick 0]

Go to Jaben at Adelphi and audition both of these sets. There is an enormous difference between the sound as far as I'm concerned. The Westone 3 is way way more heavy on the lows. For me, the TF10 just didn't have enough punch in the bass. In fact I was surprised that it didn't sound much better than my UE700s.

 

I also have to agree with the other poster. The W3 fits in my ear perfectly, and I think I could wear it all day or on a long flight no problem. The TF10s are just weird. They stick out of my ear about a mile.

[jyle 0]

Similar as in both are quite bassy, but thats about it.

 

To me, westone 3 sounds weird altogether, bass, mid, treble doesn't really mix well. TF10pro has good bass and treble. Bass goes lower than westone 3. Mids a bit hollow tho.

[kookie 0]

they are similar. TF10 is slightly more balanced and integrated from high to low.

 

but...it only takes me less than one minute to figure out that i could never wear the TF10 no matter how good it sounds. the comfort is a joke. for me, UE only makes sense when go to custom.

 

you're kidding right?

 

westone 3 and TF10 sound signatures are different in nature. although westone 3 would be more comfortable and easier to wear, i find TF10 sounds more neutral and balanced whereas westone 3 might sound a little warmer but it sounds muddy to me when it comes to bass

[liuhao 0]

no i am serious but of course this is subjective. for me it's small difference but for you may be big difference. either way is fine. i agree with you about the differences in sound signature but for my ears the differences are very subtle.

 

i come from hifi background and i owned and auditioned many different type of speakers and setup. i need a portable player and IEM to block my ears in office so i started audition these IEMs. in fact there are two things surprised me after i tried these "highend" IEMs: how bad they sound and how similar they sound comparing to real hifi system. haha...so this is where i come from. but anyway they have the portability that home hifi can not provide.

 

 

you're kidding right?

 

westone 3 and TF10 sound signatures are different in nature. although westone 3 would be more comfortable and easier to wear, i find TF10 sounds more neutral and balanced whereas westone 3 might sound a little warmer but it sounds muddy to me when it comes to bass

Edited April 9, 2010 by liuhao

[jyle 0]

Based on what i've tried so far, none of the universal IEMs are even close in details compared to full-sized headphones, dun even say speakers. Only customs can rival headphones.

[triumph 0]

i come from hifi background and i owned and auditioned many different type of speakers and setup. i need a portable player and IEM to block my ears in office so i started audition these IEMs. in fact there are two things surprised me after i tried these "highend" IEMs: how bad they sound and how similar they sound comparing to real hifi system. haha...so this is where i come from. but anyway they have the portability that home hifi can not provide.

 

agree on the "how similar they sound" part. there are different sound signatures among different earphones. but difference is nothing as vast as the hifi world.

 

you should try a high end pair of custom earphones. Ultimate Ears 18 PRO / 11 PRO or JERRY HARVEY 13 PRO / 16 PRO. paired with WHIPlash TWag earphone cables.

 

the results will be shocking if you compare them to universal earphones.

 

they definitely won't sound as good as a decent hifi system. but they will be able to capture the essence of the hifi world. tight bass. soundstage. smooth vocals. it will feel like you're listening to a portable speaker setup. but of course, speakers will still own the custom earphones.

 

 

 

 

[liuhao 0]

this is encouraging. looks like i should not just stop here at universals. issue for custom is i can not audition before buy. or is there a demo set of JH16 to audition (even its not a perfect fit)?

 

agree on the "how similar they sound" part. there are different sound signatures among different earphones. but difference is nothing as vast as the hifi world.

 

you should try a high end pair of custom earphones. Ultimate Ears 18 PRO / 11 PRO or JERRY HARVEY 13 PRO / 16 PRO. paired with WHIPlash TWag earphone cables.

 

the results will be shocking if you compare them to universal earphones.

 

they definitely won't sound as good as a decent hifi system. but they will be able to capture the essence of the hifi world. tight bass. soundstage. smooth vocals. it will feel like you're listening to a portable speaker setup. but of course, speakers will still own the custom earphones.

 

[teren41 0]

There's a demo set of up to JH13 at Jaben, with nozzles and biflange tips. Basically it's a universal version of the JH customs. I'm not sure if they have 16s though.

 

When I went a week or so ago, the 13s were on loan to Jaben Malaysia so if you want to make sure you're not stuck at the JH11s, give them a call ahead of time.

[liuhao 0]

cool. will go down to take a look. thanks.

 

There's a demo set of up to JH13 at Jaben, with nozzles and biflange tips. Basically it's a universal version of the JH customs. I'm not sure if they have 16s though.

 

When I went a week or so ago, the 13s were on loan to Jaben Malaysia so if you want to make sure you're not stuck at the JH11s, give them a call ahead of time.

 

[triumph 0]

this is encouraging. looks like i should not just stop here at universals. issue for custom is i can not audition before buy. or is there a demo set of JH16 to audition (even its not a perfect fit)?

 

yup you won't be able to audition before you buy it. it's a risk you take. but i believe a high end custom ear monitor will have significant improvements over universal earphones.

 

the WHIPlash cable that i mentioned does help significantly in bring the music one level up. it costs about near SGD400 if i'm not mistaken. but i would say pretty worth the money since you already paid SGD1K plus for the custom ear monitors.

 

and lastly, rip your CDs into WAV format. WAV format owns MP3 and Apple LOSSLESS in my honest opinion. the disadvantage is that WAV takes up hell lot of space.

 

as a matter of fact (to me, at least), i feel there's no difference between 192 - 320 kbps MP3 and Apple Lossless.

 

if you are willing to fork out cash for custom ear monitors + WHIPlash cable + CDs (which i believe you already have a decent collection, with due thanks to your hifi hobby), you will be very satisfied with the sound you can get from just the custom earphones and your DAP.

 

best part, no hassle of lugging a portable amplifier. and portable amplifiers can cost pretty much too. not to mention, having to spend money on line out docks for the connection as well.

 

Jaben @ adelphi 4th floor may have demo units for Jerry Harvery Customs and Ultimate Ears Customs.

 

if you order directly from JH Audio, you can have significant cost savings. you can check out their website for their prices. but Jaben gives you the warranty support for the extra dough you pay.

 

not too sure about Ultimate Ears. on the cost savings bit.

 

it will be good if you can borrow someone's custom earphones (at jaben) and try to squeeze them into your ears. may give you a better picture of what kind of sound you will be getting instead of trying the universal demos.

 

 

[teren41 0]

and lastly, rip your CDs into WAV format. WAV format owns MP3 and Apple LOSSLESS in my honest opinion. the disadvantage is that WAV takes up hell lot of space.

 

With both WAV, Apple Lossless (for that matter, FLAC & every other lossless format out there), the original analog audio signal is perfectly reproduced, via the Nyquiest-Shannon Sampling Theorem. Therefore there is completely no difference between WAV and lossless formats (and for that matter, CD). If you are hearing differences, it's probably due to the player settings, I assume your WAV files are being played by winamp / WMP and apple lossless by iTunes, please check your iTunes settings and make sure al the enhancements like Sound Enhancer are turned off.

 

At this juncture, I won't say that the differences you are hearing between apple lossless and WAV are in your mind, so you should weed out the problem that's causing you to hear differences.

 

As for MP3s, WAV and lossless formats are technically superior in terms of quality to this format, however the amount to which this quality improvement can be discerned is debatable. I for one find 320kbps indistinguishable from lossless, in fact, -v0 VBR encryption is also pretty much transparent for me. 192kbps and 128kbps is where quality starts to take a noticeable hit, although stuff really only becomes completely unlistenable at 96kbps.

 

Also, if you're gonna try out others' customs to audition the sound, make sure there's a proper seal, otherwise the sound you hear will be bass-shy, sibilant and thoroughly unsatisfying. The universals, while not 100% of the sound signature you get upon receiving your full custom, will be a much better demo unit than a badly fitting custom.

[triumph 0]

my comparison was done using my ipod player. i ripped various versions of the same song and compared. i kept everything constant. the only variable is the bit rate of the same song.

 

all i can say is that... we all hear things differently! it's indeed a very cliche term.. haha.

 

anyway thanks for the discussion.

 

[liuhao 0]

have tried JH13 and JH11...

 

for my ears, the difference between JH13 and UM3X...

 

JH13 has higher resolution and better detail from mid-range to high. i can even hear recording or normalization flaws in my .wav files which previously i could not hear on UM3X. JH13 has more smooth and extended high. there are more "strength" in the JH13 which makes the sound more engaging. the bass is similar between JH13 and UM3X. but i personally feel bass of UM3X has more punch and details. it's definitely an area requires improvement (maybe this is what JH16 is about). the JH13 has much better sound stage. In few occasions JH13 gives me a little bit the "defined image" feeling like real hifi setup, but only few occasions. overall JH13 sounds very american: tight, energetic, aggressive, powerful, integrated and digitized. it's clearly an upgrade from UM3X, maybe 50% better overall. however this is not saying UM3X is not good. comparing to JH13, UM3X is more analogue, relax, loose, easy listening, a little bit "vinyl" and vintage speaker sounding. it's still highly enjoyable even after i tried JH13.

 

difference between JH13 and JH11:

JH13 has fuller sound like a floorstander while JH11 is more like a aggressive sounding bookshelf. personally i prefer JH13 type of sound.