Mackie

I'm using the first Stable Platter cdp (PD9700) invented by Pioneer which is a decade old in my headphone setup as transport, partnering a MF X-24K dac to update the analogue stage to the latest technology. How to identify if it is a Stable Platter? Easy, all Pioneer cdps are. The most obvious detail on the transport is the noticeable rubber mat with a stopper at the center of the cd tray which houses the cd upside down ie, shiny surface facing up. Essentially, the Stable Platter works like a turntable (record player to laymen) with the laser directing downwards on the cd while it spins on the tray. Conventional cdps lift and clamp the cd away from the tray while the laser directs its beam outwards. Now the tweak. On turntables, the rubber or felt mat which LPs rest on has an impact on sound quality. Once again, a better grip on LPs avoid skid of the stylus (record needle) and this stability improves sound. The other contributor is resonance as vibration from the contact of stylus and record will be soaked up by the mat underneath. Based on this theory, it dawned on me to use a very cheap tweak on cdps with Stable Platters. Has anyone seen the round paper with one side waxed and a hole cut in the center for protection of cds/dvds? One should have come across this when they buy the "friendly" D9s in Malaysia or pasar malam. Place this paper on the stable platter cd tray and then load the cd on top of it and walla......sound improvement is by leaps and bounds. What are the improvement? Here goes: 1. Imaging/soundstaging are improved by a few rungs and the sense of depth is much deeper. 2. Details especially those in the background are so much clearer. Ambience and presence of each instrument are clearer and grab my attention where they were normally overlooked. 3. Sound is fuller especially piano and vocals. Piano keys are struck with a rounder note to it ie, with bounce instead of the lame tinkering. Vocals take on a fuller body and definitely closer to the listener...most emotional I would say. Anone who has such cdps should give it a try and I'd like to hear of your feedback.

Hi tee, Thanks for the link and very good review on that...touching more on the structure and technicalities of the DT880's performance. My review concentrates more on the sonic areas. Looking at the chart, the common points raised in both our reviews are the lack of details, bass depth and soundstaging of HD600 relative to DT880. Also in question is the tonal balance of the Senn because of one culprit......the richer upper bass-lower mid range which not only masks the deeper bass regions but also the highs as well. A lot of lesser speakers deliberately boost this range to give a sense of scale and weight to the sound but in actual fact, it is colouration. However, do take note that colourations will always prevail and it's just a matter of degree. Some like it, others don't..... YMMV. As in Beyer's tradition in the pro field where their cans are used in studio mastering/recordings, any weakness in the source will be revealed. Less revealing cans can hide this but not DT880. So don't be surprise if one starts to chuck some cds with poor recordings aside.....such is the irony of a good sound system. My DT880 has chalked more than 250 hours of play now ....fully run in by now. Its sound starts to change after about 100 hours.

Hi guys and gals (any gals here? ), I will start to post my power buy on 2 other forums beginning next week. Please show me your interest early to capitalize on this purchase. So far, only Oak has upped his hands on this forum. Anyone else? Thanks.

Guyferd, pls check pm.

Yeah, i sold my HD600 when I first joined this forum to a member here but he did not tell me his nick. Young chap....still in high school or college I think. Will the person please own up for ID?

I'm trying to look at your perspective and I found that U've arrived at your chosen basis of setup due to budget constraints. With due respect, U're not wrong either. However, what lies in question is the rule of thumb for someone who does not have this constraint. Say if U have a friend who has the funds and in your capacity as a sound enginner/audio consultant/audiophile, would U still recommend the course of undertaking from back to front? If your answer is still yes, then our views are entirely different. If no, then we have reached an understanding. My favoured "garbage in, garbage out" theory and basis of system setup is used as a rule of thumb and may not be possible to follow in the real world. As a case study, let's take your system comprising of a Toshiba source (is it a dvdp?), OBH-11SE and DT770 pro. If U were to ask me for an upgrade tip, I will not ask U to buy a DT880 but instead, suggest a dac like MF X-24K or a proper cdp. DVD players may have high sampling rates/resolution but the audio circuit is less than desired...often bright, course and edgy even in very high end dvdps. But if U were to be using a pair of lesser cans or ear buds, DT880 will be my suggestion for this upgrade route. I hope I've clarified my stance...phew.....

evil-zen: your second posting explains your stance on this issue much better, so does your budget allocation in your example. Quoting on the extract, I do support higher priority given to the source and then onwards. However, the essence is balance which U've raised and this I concur and my mistake to leave it out in my previous post. Nevertheless, your allocation of $300 on cans, $200 on amp and $500 on source also concurs with my opinion that source is of utmost importance. If the order of allocation were to be $500-cans, $300-amp and $200 source., the less ideal source will be exposed as a weakness by the higher resolution of this cans. Agree? This would become a reality if Oak were to retain his disman/X-PUS/X-cans and upgrade his cans to DT880. It will not sound as good as his current setup being driven my CD17MKIII and K501.

Hi evil-zen and Guyferd: I don't wanna preach but I hope to avert a very serious mistake and misconception in audiophillia. Please bear with me. In sound engineering, all schematics and designs are drawn from input to output; very clearly stating the priority of the signal path....as highlighted by Northern Oak. For the record, I was part of the dept. which handles engineering/design/audition of Kenwood AV amps more than a decade ago before my switch to finance. Abiding the old saying "garbage in, garbage out" will help one to avert mistakes and in some cases, disaster in sytem building. If one were to discount cds, the transport of a cd player is the first link that will determine the sound. How else do U think there are separates system comprising of a transport and an outboard dac converter? Even in standalone cdps, the various transport models (of the same brand) give different standards of reliability and sound quality. Coming to your point of speakers giving a big change in sound then elsewhere in the link, I agree....on the change, what about improvement? If there is too, will the change be more significant if the source were to be changed? I mostly concur on this point. In the case of evil-zen's point of DT770 having a strong bass, how can this bass be presented if the source ie cd or cdp are lacking in this aspect? Basically, the source info has to be available and prevalent before amps and cans can amplify the signal to create the resultant sound. With drops in resolution and details on the front end, no amps or speakers or cans are able to replenish this loss. In the case of Guyferd's contentment with mp3 as a source, I can't argue with that because of this rule of thumb that I hold true: As an example, if a person cannot hear the sonic difference of a mini-compo and audiophile system, I will always recommend the listener to buy the mini-compo instead. It doesn't make sense to spend more money on something he couldn't appreciate. Such is the law of economics. As for the reversal in order as mentioned in your post, I've to disagree. Whether one has taken the route of source-amp-cans, reversed or jumbled up, there're differences. These are time, money and stress. In a given budget of say $1000, the most efficient and economical way is to allocate the monies in this order of priority: source > amp > cans/speakers. The reason being having a good source and least expensive cans/speakers will produce better sound than the reverse. As time goes on when one's standards is heightened, the time taken to go for another upgrade is normally shorter in the reversed config than the first because your ears are asking for more details which the second system with inferior source cannot produce. Also, setting up a system fom back to front is not only prone to upgrades but also error and thus, stress. This also equates to more expenditure when corrective attempts followed suit. Generally, all cans/speakers carry a certain amount of sonic signature and this is what that's being heard....not necessary more details or resolution. Figure this, a pauper can dress like a king and look like a king at first glance. Give it a little time and his real identity shall be revealed.......denotes back to front analogy. Dress up a king in beggars' clothing and he will appear as a pauper first. But the eloquence and intellect can never be masked for long......denotes front to back analogy. In these 2 analogies, which is faster to correct the pauper or the king to appear as the real king? The answer is most obvious. On an interim period, I partnered my Marantz CD6000ose with a setup comprising of MF A3CR preamp, Krell KSA-150 power amp, Behringer DSP8024 parametric eq and Dynaudio Acoustics PPM2 speakers. All who came noticed the cdp as the weakest link after auditions despite of having what I think is a good and high end rig....except for the source. After changing the cdp to a MF A3CD (24/92 upsampling), accolades and praises followed suit. Will changing the speakers instead of the 6000ose help? No way. The reason being a higher-end equiptment will reveal more....all the strong and weak elements in my system, hence the shortcoming of the cdp. This is a real life lesson to be learnt and if one wishes to experience this, come over and I will demonstrate the difference of a system having a poorer and better source. Please do note that 6000ose is an excellent cdp for the price but in a high-end system, its weakness would be revealed in an unforgiving way than a budget-mid range system. I hope my tone wasn't too serious and if I did, please excuse me. It's meant to be for a good cause.

I must say 300 bucks for the HD600 (used) is a rather good price. Please check the cable and try unplugging and re-plug it to ensure connection is not overly loose as this is the weakest link. I've a friend who used to work as a techie at Sennheiser and he told me most of the negative feedback is the cable which can dislodge pretty easily. If all else is fine, U should still be a happy bird Guyferd. I just learnt U've the OBH-11SE for headamp which is a very good match to the Grado. In the case of HD600, its rich upper bass-lower mid range may not suit your headamp sonically, more ideal for the X-cans. Have U tried the cans with your headamp yet? Of course, this is my own opinion and I don't wish for any member to regret on their purchases if all of us could be of help. I've gone through patches of this in my long road to sonic heaven.

Hi Guyferd, Have U auditioned both the HD600 and DT880? If U've not tried the latter, come over for a listen. In terms of cost and value-for-money, there's no competition with the price of DT880 I'm able to get. If U were to pop by, U can kill 2 birds with one stone by listening to the partnership of cd6000ose and DT880.

Gees..... I am old. I thought ablaze is my senior! Guyferd: Pls check PM. Hey, don't hang your head in discontent or shame in getting a Marantz. The cd6000 ose is similar to its predecessor CD63 and has lots of potential in components upgrade to make it sound better. For the price below $700, it's a cdp which offers great value for money. Before the arrival of my high-end cdp MF A3CD, the 6000ose used to partner my main audio system. Of course, there're flaws but good enough to hold fort till the arrival of the MF. The 6000ose has good warmth which most cheaper cdps tend to lack. This is a plus if U listen to vocals a lot. There's also good pace and drive on the bass and only the highs are a tad sharp. If your system lacks the wee bit of extension on the highs and U're using tube gears, this nature will inject some life and clarity to the overall sound. If U're getting this cdp, enjoy it first and later, I will introduce some cheap tweaks to improve the sound quality further. Your jaws will drop like N. Oak! My CD6000ose

Hi ablaze, as yet, only the DT880s are hoarding his inventory. There're a few sets of 770s and 990s consumer versions which just came in but they are sonically below that of the 880, I think. Guys, let me know soon as I'm beginning to get enqueries from echoloft on the back of my earlier review thread.

Extra info, just called my source in HK (a relative actually) and he has set aside around 20 pairs for me. Times are so bad in HK that he would be happy to sell them at minimum profit margin and clear his inventory. Despite the lower SGD/HKD exchange rate and shipping cost, I am confident of getting a price which only one can dream of. Show me your interest and email me quick!

Guyferd: The idea of having a good sound system is to enjoy the music. The source must sound right or all else will falter along the chain. In your case, CDs are the source. Money has to be spent for this kinda enjoyment.....look at N. Oak......flippier than Flipper, the dolphin! Are U keen to buy a used 6000ose? Got one here. Might help U save a hundred bucks or so.

Yes, 3 cones offer the best stability than 4. If your cd tray is not at the center, position 2 cones at the front and 1 on the back. Since it's for a cans system, make sure the tips are pointed down. Tips up are recommended on a speakers system. Tips down: to transfer vibration from cdp to ground Tips up: to pare mechanical feedback to cdp

Definitely Yes!

Dear fellow forumers, I'm arranging a power buy of these excellent cans and want to see a show of hands before proceeding with the bargaining bit. The cans will come with 1 year waranty and all buyers can deal with me directly. I'm bound by terms which disallow me to reveal prices publicly but I guarantee it will be VERY ATTRACTIVE! Exclusive for this forum, members will have a headstart before I move to others I belong. Please reveal your interest here. Discussion on prices can only be made via email and all are bound to secrecy. I guarantee all members here will get the same prices. For those who wish to buy on behalf of friends/relatives, orders are welcomed but please convey my conditions to them. As a disclaimer, I'm not a hifi dealer and in no position near this occupation. I'm working as a Financial Analyst. My only motive is to help a friend and fellow "can-men" to benefit from this buy and pave the way closer to sonic heaven. Let's show it guys!

One thing about tweaks, improvement is usually subtle except for a few occasions and some may not be able to tell the difference. IMO, buy an Ikea chopping block for your cdp to rest on and it shall be lie in peace.....kekekek For less than $20, it's another good isolation tweak as it gives certain warmth to the sound. If it doesn't work for U, be a good son or hubby and offer it to your mum or wifey.....touching isn't it? Btw N Oak, the A.I wooden cones can be used as isolation feet as well.....have time exploring with them over and under your new mistress. See which makes U tick......

Henry of Audio Industries sells the cones for $40 for a set of 3. If U are not keen on getting 2 sets, buy one set and use the extra cone (after fitting the other 2 on your cans) atop your cdp where the transformer lies. Locate it by the weight, heat source or look at the bottom and seek screws of bigger diameter. As for DT880, I may be able to get a good discount be it an individual buy or better still, a group power buy. U may sort it out amongst yourself....... hint hint.......

The 6000ose KI (showroom set) at KEC was sold at $419. A new set should cost less than a grand as the new CD17 MKIII is being sold at a much lower price than the initial launch of MKII. On redbook playback, most favoured the MKIII over the Marantz SA-8260 (approx $1200-1300). The latter is a SACD player.

Congrats on the new purchase N. Oak! U've just skipped the budget and into the mid-high end with this new purchase. The brightness U're experiencing now is existant in most cdps before a full run-in is achieved. I recommend spinning a cd on repeat mode for a few days non-stop before crucial listening is done. After which when U're familar with the sound, try out the RCA plug and the wooden cones (1 atop the transformer and the other towards the centre-forward). I forsee better imaging/control/soundstaging, a fuller mid range and lower noise floor. This cdp will become a foundation if a speakers setup is forthcoming. I reckon the X-cans V2 is capable of accomodating this upgrade and if more monies were to be spent, a new pair of cans like the DT880 will be perfect; but not for now - my advice. In the interim, I can let U try out the cones and plug tweaks before commiting a purchase. I reckon a full course will cost U about $95 (2 sets of cones and plug). Let me know if I could help.

ting: I think U've misunderstood Rameish's comment. He meant to say DT880 has more grit and presented the bite and attack of trumpets accurately whereas the HD600 seems to coat it with honey and thus, sweeter but with less vibrance. If U like your mids-highs to carry more sweetness at the expense of bass slam and attack, HD600 is definitely for U. No doubt about it as the Senn excels in this sonic area.

From someone capable of designing a chip, U'd expect no less a technical explanation of how the wooden cones work. Well said Northern Oak! Just remember, the law of resonance applies to all areas in hifi...be it home theatre, 2-channel speakers and cans setups. For the first two systems, the room modes (resonance again) will play a huge part in sound improvement. I always like to pursue this course with cones and coins before looking into changes of body parts.

Hi evil-zen: It was a long review and perhaps a fresh round of perusal will answer all of your concerns. My review was written based on what I can deduce from the sound of DT880 that I currently own and any comparison to the HD600 was based on memory as I no longer have the latter. My intention is not to make a direct comparison but to highlight the strength and weakness (if any...kekeke) of the DT880. Any comparison made to the HD600 is pivotal to the decisive switch to the Beyer camp. This key point was highlighted in the prelude ie. opening sentence. I don't define treble, bass and mid range generally as it's too vast and inaccurate. My usage of lower bass, upper bass, lower mids, upper mids etc are to specifically pin-pont a frequency range for better understanding. As for soundstaging, this area was constantly mentioned and some were left out as the track concerned was not known to exhibit a strength in this area. The various tracks were selected to test the cans' performance in different sonic area of worthy consideration. Thanks for your interest.

I should have included a summary.....added as deemed appropriate.