Burned Audio CD-Rs

[pcking 0]

Don't know if this is the appropriate channel to post this thread but since U have to use a PC to do the copying, I guessed it should be here in PC Audio.

 

I have personally tried it n even did blind shootout with a few friends who eventually admit defeat with my burnt CD-Rs vs their originals. All the albums used r my friends' favourite CDs which they r very familiar with. N the shoot-outs r done on their own set-ups where all settings remain the same while changing the discs.

 

So far all 3 of them chose my burnt CD-Rs as the "better" sounding ones.

 

Believe it or not, this is the article written by a net friend of mine Gary.

 

In Quest of Absolute Fidelity

 

Enjoy !

[RonTheMan 0]

Wonder if this applies to DVD and video as well. Is there any black dvd by any chance?

[idkfa 0]

PCking, care to tell me the make of your CD-R media? And what CD were you burning? Details can be interesting for me.

[pcking 0]

Wonder if this applies to DVD and video as well. Is there any black dvd by any chance?

Whether it works for DVD (audio n video), I don't know but don't think so.

And as of now, there isn't any blank "black" DVD medias.

 

So far all the available DVD-/+ R/RW r all having blue dyes n there is no reason why they want to use black substrate instead of clear ones.

 

The reason why black CDRs emerged was bcos of PS1 games.

Edited April 13, 2005 by pcking

[pcking 0]

PCking, care to tell me the make of your CD-R media? And what CD were you burning? Details can be interesting for me.

I have tried only 3 types of "black" CDRs. Melody, Sigma & Platinium.

 

So far I find the Platinium one sounded best to my ears but unfortunately, I can't seem to find them in SLS anymore.

 

If U need pics, I'll try to take some.

 

These r the few albums that I can still remember which were used in the blind shoot-out.

 

1. Eagles - Hell freezes Over (XRCD)

2. 25th Anniversary - Teresa Teng (XRCD)

3. Close to You - Susan Wong (Normal CD but 96 khz/24 bit mastering)

4. Jazz at Pawn Shop - Proprius Records (Normal CD)

 

Don't know if these r your "genre" of music.

[Absolute0 0]

I think burned audio CD-Rs can sound "better" than the original, as "better" is subjective. There might be "distortions" (not necessarily a bad thing, such as in added warmth) during the buring process which one might perceive as an improvement. Nonetheless, I seriously doubt there can be an increase in actual (possibly perceived though) resolution which makes the copy sound "better".

[pcking 0]

I think burned audio CD-Rs can sound "better" than the original, as "better" is subjective. There might be "distortions" (not necessarily a bad thing, such as in added warmth) during the buring process which one might perceive as an improvement. Nonetheless, I seriously doubt there can be an increase in actual (possibly perceived though) resolution which makes the copy sound "better".

I wouldn't say the burnt CDRs has better resolution than the originals but somehow the clarity n details were 2 of the main improvements.

 

In one of the blind tests, my friend just couldn't decide which one was the better sounding one even after repeatedly changing of the discs. Finally he chose the burnt CDR as he felt that it has a lower noise floor than the original.

[Absolute0 0]

I was under the impression that clarity and detail are linked to resolution? All that jargon.

[papaya86 0]

isnt it best to listen to music the way it was meant/made to be heard instead? but all i've got to say is all these audiophiles have too much time and money to spare

Edited April 13, 2005 by papaya86

[nakedtoes 0]

i did make a copy of a original CD recordings.. and indeed my copy sound much clearer then my frd's.. i remember i used Yamaha CDR..

[Mackie 0]

Let's try this......... I printed a document from PC and then used the latest state of the art copier to make a fresh copy it. Is there any chance of this copy looking "better" than the original? ** shrug shrug **

 

One more thing. Data burnt onto cd roms do not last as long as cds made commercially. I found out the hard way when one of the cd roms of my entire wedding went blank. The data was unrecoverable.

 

However, original cds can sound inferior to burnt-in ones if they are either scratched or dirty whilest the latter are fresh copies.

Edited April 14, 2005 by Mackie

[evil-zen 0]

Well, the photocopying analogy doesn't work here as that is a analog method while copying and burning cdr is a digital.

 

There are some reasons as to why burned audio cd-rs may sound better. One of the reasons may be because pressings of the commercial cd is not exactly centred and may pose problems while reading. Burned audio cds should be perfectly centred and pits may be better defined.

 

And there is the problem of CDr media with different dyes and reflective surfaces interacting differently with transports. Some of the older transport may not read certain CDr due to the above 2 reasons. My theory is that some CDr can sound better or sound worse depending on the type of CDr used and type of transport.

 

Burning speed is also crucial to audio CDr. As I have recently found out, burning at lower speeds do not mean a better copy. I tried burning audio CDs using the same media at different speeds and found that the one burnt at higher speed (16X) can be read on a certain transport while one burnt at 4X cannot be read at all!

 

Another problem is quality control while making the media itself. A CDr with the same dye and reflective surface is not exactly the same as the other CDr with the same specification but with different manufacturers. So some CDr are far inferior to others. So far I haven't had a destroyed CDr yet. Hopefully I won't have one in the future.

[pcking 0]

I was under the impression that clarity and detail are linked to resolution? All that jargon.

Yes U r right in that sense that higher resolution does results in more clarity n details for example for the same album which comes in a normal CD n in XRCD format, of course the XRCD will have more details n clarity.

 

 

What I meant by saying that the burnt CDRs does not have "better" resolution is that the whole process of duplication does not result in additional "bits" of data being burnt into the CDRs. The "bits" r essentially the same as what the original contains. If the burnt CDRs were to contain more "bits" than the original, then I would say the softwares or hardwares that r used have "altered" the original sound by creating some other "effects" that may "colour" the original recordings.

 

But the process/method featured in this thread is to copy exactly what the original contains n not adding more "bits"

 

As to why the CDRs can sound "better", since both r having the same no. of "bits" of data is actually mentioned in the article.

 

[pcking 0]

isnt it best to listen to music the way it was meant/made to be heard instead? but all i've got to say is all these audiophiles have too much time and money to spare

Yes U r absolutely right !

 

What this whole thread is about is to be able to recreate exactly or near to exactly how the recording was supposed to sound when it was recorded.

It's not about adding "colour" or artificially alter the recordings to make them sound better.

 

But the point here is the Original CD might not be able to do it's job as well as a burnt CDR. As to why, it's also already mentioned in the article.

Unless the Original CD was perfectly pressed, if not chances r a burnt CDR might sound better.

[pcking 0]

Let's try this......... I printed a document from PC and then used the latest state of the art copier to make a fresh copy it. Is there any chance of this copy looking "better" than the original? ** shrug shrug **

 

One more thing. Data burnt onto cd roms do not last as long as cds made commercially. I found out the hard way when one of the cd roms of my entire wedding went blank. The data was unrecoverable.

 

However, original cds can sound inferior to burnt-in ones if they are either scratched or dirty whilest the latter are fresh copies.

Your analogy is interesting but not appropriate in this context.

 

The theories n reasons, I believed evil-zen has already more or less answered U.

 

 

CD-ROM is not = CD-R.

 

CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs are similar in that they are replicated discs—that is, the data are physically pressed into the disc when it is manufactured. ROMs are generally mass-produced and contain music, video, computer applications, or interactive games.

 

CD-R, DVD-R, DVD+R discs are usually categorized by the metal and dye types used in the disc. These discs use gold, silver, or a silver alloy for the reflective layer instead of aluminum as in ROM discs. Gold will not corrode but is expensive. Silver is more reflective and cheaper than gold but is susceptible to corrosion if exposed to sulfur dioxide, an air pollutant that can penetrate the disc in the same way oxygen can—with moisture. Manufacturers use various silver alloys to help inhibit silver corrosion, and most R discs available today use a silver alloy reflective layer. The chance of silver corrosion from exposure to sulfur dioxide is less than the chance of aluminum oxidation caused by high humidity. Nonetheless,

keeping the disc in a filtered “clean air†environment can minimize

or eliminate its exposure to sulfur dioxide. With proper storage,

these discs will outlast the technology.

 

Manufacturers claim that CD-R and DVD-R discs have a shelf life of 5 to 10 years before recording, and under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more.

 

 

Sorry to hear about your wedding CDR. Most probably it's either due to lousy media or storage conditions.