Does length matter?

[Mackie 0]

Morning Mackie,

 

I have no Golden Ears, i can't hear 30hz< and >18khz (Confirmed, period.).

 

I tried the following setups

 

1)  CD5000 -> (1m)monster400mk2 ->obh11->hp

 

    the sound is too forward like it got truncated. 

 

2) CD5000 -> (2m)Ed acoustic ->obh11->hp

 

    it sounds right on time.

 

3) CD5000 -> monster400mk2 -> obh11+obh2 ->hp

 

    it sounds right on time.

 

4) CD5000 -> (2m)Ed acoustic -> obh11+obh2 ->hp

 

    it sounds right on time also.

 

 

That's why i suspect the length does matter, I suspect only and I have no evidence at all.  Moreover the ICs are of different brands.

 

 

As u have explain earlier, it's a big topic as there is even school of thought on the lengthy issue.

Charismatic,

 

Unless there's a typo error, may I clarify setup (3) has a 2m Monster interconnect? If so, there's a difference with setup (1) as there's an additional component in the link ie. obh2 which is not present in the latter. Hence, we are not comparing apples to apples.

 

Even if the Monster interconnect is of 1m in setup (3), it isn't fair to compare with setup (1) owing to the additional obh2.

 

In any case, I'm sure different lengths of the same cable will affect the specs accordingly but whether our ears can detect them is subjective. In audiophilia, I agree there's no definitive answers to everything in sonic presentation but background theories are useful in showing where the balance of forces tilt in favour or against.

 

As long as the final sound is to your liking, break the "rules" or general consensus by any means. I've broken a lot in my time.

Edited June 14, 2003 by Mackie

[Charismatic 0]

Thanks, u mean it is to follow u heart when setup u listening env right?

 

I didn't break the "rules" because I don't know there are "rules".

[jtfoo 0]

jtfoo,

 

DC Blocking caps = decouple caps? Those connected from signal path to ground?

I have a 0.1uf cap in my cdp output just before the rca caps and wonder if that is what it is,

No, DC blocking caps are connected directly in series along the signal path. Normally at the input of the amplifier to block DC voltage. No caps along the signal is the best. But to protect your amp, in case of a bad source, the DC blocking cap is a neccessary evil.

[fishball79 0]

jtfoo,

 

I see, thanks for the explanation!

[Firefox 0]

jtfoo,

 

DC Blocking caps = decouple caps?  Those connected from signal path to ground?

I have a 0.1uf cap in my cdp output just before the rca caps and wonder if that is what it is,

No, DC blocking caps are connected directly in series along the signal path. Normally at the input of the amplifier to block DC voltage. No caps along the signal is the best. But to protect your amp, in case of a bad source, the DC blocking cap is a neccessary evil.

I think their actually supposed to protect your speakers/ headphones more than the amp. In the case of speaker setup, it might be both.

DC offset when amplified by the amp will force the drivers (both HP & speakers) to one side. Or fry them (HP drivers). As for speaker setups, constantly pumping that amount of power might damage the amp as well (due to heat or otherwise).

Edited June 15, 2003 by Firefox

[jtfoo 0]

I think their actually supposed to protect your speakers/ headphones more than the amp.  In the case of speaker setup, it might be both. 

DC offset when amplified by the amp will force the drivers (both HP & speakers) to one side.  Or fry them (HP drivers).  As for speaker setups, constantly pumping that amount of power might damage the amp as well (due to heat or otherwise).

You're right. In the end is the speaker coil that get burnt. Which might result in a shorting of the coil and that draws more current than the amp can handle, hence amp also burnt

Edited June 15, 2003 by jtfoo

[fuwen 0]

The long/short cable theory seems correct for most of the 'normal' system but I realised recently this theory may not work on Naim products in the 'normal' way.

 

I have a hifi kaki who is a die-hard Naim fan. It is him that I realised Naim is one of a kind. They don't use conventional connectors (RCA, Balance) but instead use their very special DIN standard connectors. And apparently 3rd party cables may not work well with the Naim components. A very peculiar thing I know of is for Naim the longer the speaker cable the better is the performance (long, up to 5m as my friend has tested)! I have another hifi kaki who try to use a 3m Zeus II and is outperform by the very normal looking Naim OEM speaker cables. The Naim die-hard is trying to get a 7m Naim speaker cable to test.

 

Naim salesmen also do not recommend contact/connector cleaner.

 

Any body has any idea on Naim design philosophy? Is it that they include the physical properties of cable in their design and therefore as a system longer cables actually work better on their system.

[Rameish 0]

Naim is still using the DIN connectors because they claim it's better than the other connecters around. The use solid core type cables whcih can sound hard with short lengths. I suspect what you firend is experiencing is this - longer cables reduce/filter out some dynamics and the somewhat hard sound is reduced. There is no sepcail magic going on. NAIM fans will disagree however.

 

My opionion is it's apity that NAIM still uses the DIN as it somewhat limits their consumer base. The DIN plug is still used in small signal applications like tonearm IC and mic connectos. But other than the low output/input volatge applications it really offer no real advantage IMO esp with stuff like the Bullet Plugs, hollow pin plugs around nowadays. It's just an old standard.

 

BTW NAIM's DIN configuration is different from normal tonearm configuration.

 

 

 

 

[Barradio 0]

Beside the Naim the Quad (older vers) too used the DINs connection. DIN are better because it single point (minimum) contact like the Bullet plug or the Bullet plug follow the DIN concept.

[MERTON 0]

you can get better interconnects for less money than the same quality speaker cable... soe make the ic's longer.

[Rameish 0]

Beside the Naim the Quad (older vers) too used the DINs connection. DIN are better because it single point (minimum) contact like the Bullet plug or the Bullet plug follow the DIN concept.

Barradio,

 

For small signal like the output from a TT cart I totally agree with you. Even a high output TT cart is in the region of 4.5 mV only so a DIN Plug would in theory pose less of a bottle neck in signal flow. But since most CDP use a standard of 2 Volts or higher the DIN plug limits the physical size of the cable and the dielectic/sheath etc and as such is a greater bottleneck so I would stick to RCA format or XLR for higher output stuff like home CDP, newer (after 1978) tuners, etc. Notice how a particular CDP which has both RCA and XLR outputs would have say 2 Volts output via RCA but something like double that via XLR. The sad news is I do believe that with all these high output sources input overload at the receiving end (ie the amp or preamp) can occur resulty in a hyper dynamic sound that is fatiguing to the ears - mine anyways. Sometimes I wish they'll go back to the good old days of low output with din connectors but sadly that's no longer the standard.

 

IMO both DIN and Litz wire belong in the small signal domain (less than 1 Volt). Some carts (usually MC ones) output even less than 0.5 mV so there's where the stregth of less metal in the way would be better (DIN plugs have very little metal in the clips).

 

So I both agree and disagree with you here ;-).

 

 

LOL

Edited February 17, 2004 by Rameish