RS-1 vs DT880

[ablaze 0]

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread....&threadid=37641

 

posted by kuma

Enough things have been said on this 'fones alreay. But, here's my take. My apology in advance for poor English. ( Not my native language is my poor excuse for it )

 

PLAY LIST:

1. Christian McBride: ‘Little Sunflower’

2. Chuck Mangione: ‘Feel So Good’

3. Lemmon Jelly: ‘A Tune for Jack’

4. Boom Boom Satelites: ‘Ignition’

5. Ravel: ‘Piano Concerto for the left hand in D major’

6. Art of Noise: ‘Spit’

7. Abrams: ‘Mugpie’

8. Ralph Lawson: ‘Mr. Scruff-shrimp’

9. Charles Webster: ‘Fox Soup’ ‘Ready’

10. Earl Klugh/Bob James: ‘Whiplash’

 

CAVEATS:

• I use a headphone transformer. Hence amps used are regular amplifiers opposed to a dedicated head amp. Might not be the best match with high impedance headphones. But these systems are my point of reference so I am familiar with their strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately there were no solid state amplifications available within an audition period.

 

• Same tracks were played via two different sets of speakers in the same systems in addition to headphones used with NO change in upstream components or cabling.

 

• AKG501 was added later for benchmark for its neutral midband. Or at least I hear less colour than either RS1 or DT880.

 

• Both AKG501 and DT880 were run-in for approx. 50 hrs.

 

 

IMPRESSIONS OF DT880/RS1 IN SYSTEM 1

 

 

• It stays pleasant at a moderate level. However, the minute you turn up a wick, everything pretty much collapses and trebles get out of hand.

 

• Low bass has more bloom than RS1. It does not dig deep as RS1 yet it is reasonably controlled and well presented.

 

• Soft midbass. RS1 gives better definition in midbass. Each note is better articulated and separated whereas DT880 tends to blur it. This was painfully apparent in opening bars of Boom Boom Satellites’ ‘Ignition’. RS1 kept the energy and raw power to propel the music forward. DT880 sounds as if it hesitates to hit a note.

 

• Listening to vocals was an uninvolving experience with DT880. Charming and mild, but lost focus and tension, as if a lead singer was giving a half-hearted effort.

 

• Lesser ambient air or treble decays than RS1.

 

• Chimes and bells can sound bit dull and distant. It rounds out all the edges off. This hurts particularly playing mp3/AIFF files where they have already lost some transient bites. DT880 makes these dull files even duller. However pleasant, it ends up making music sound lifeless. RS1 preserves musical contents better than DT880 with both AIFF and mp3 files.

 

• Trebles sound detached from the rest.

 

• AON’s ‘Spit’ sounds polite and takes on a distant view. On this track, a slight box coloration is heard. I.e.: hollow and hooty in the lower midband and midbass region.

 

• This is not a timing champ. It does not render subtle rhythmic nuances or punctuations as well as RS1.

 

• Slight bloom applied in upper midrange makes decay of notes after an initial attack blends into the background. RS1 sounds linear and cleaner in this area. Subsequent notes emerge from blacker background with RS1 which creates better sense of acoustic and air in spite its shortcomings on depth rendition.

 

IMPRESSIONS OF DT880/RS1 IN SYSTEM 2

 

 

• Overall, more neutral and quick-footed jotas complement DT880. Frequency extensions improve significantly.

 

Sidenote: Swapping Kimber 8TC to NBS BL speaker cables

 

• Speed things up even more without adding treble emphasis and congestion. The playing field in timing property is closer to RS1. They belong in the same plain as the rest of the music.

8TC deliverd a good bass ( much better than AQ cables ) but compromised DT880s’ trebles.

 

• Midbass firms up significantly - added better sense of control and weight as well as restoring intelligibility. ( less sticking of notes ).

 

• With right cables, you can make this baby sing. The same tunes are delivered with more authority and life. However, a mild coloration in the midband is still present. Central image placement improves with NBS making the whole presentation more involving.

 

• Soundstage further deepens and instruments especially the ones that fall in the midband are separated better.

 

OVERALL IMPRESSIONS SO FAR

 

 

Midrange is resolving enough to tell the difference in upstream changes as well as subtle musical contents. The resolution of DT880 makes it more comparable with demanding upstream equipment than one might expect. Although, frequency extremes are still short of RS1.

While RS-1 works beautifully with both systems, the only way I could make DT880 work to my advantage was to use it in the main rig with heavy artilleries. This was surprising since some stated it is more workable than RS-1. I found quite opposite is true. It made a huge leap with more resolving components.

Even badly recorded music in system 2 can sound convincing and natural. It’s letting through what the rest of electronics/cables do best as a whole. This virtue is one of the few similarities they share between DT880 and RS1.

My preference is to drive DT880 with a neutral, fast and resolving ( especially in frequency extremes ) amplifier. Otherwise, DT880 has a tendency to turn the music into a wallpaper.

 

Treble quality of DT880 differs from RS1. It is reasonably extended. However, at times, it sounds somewhat synthetic compared to how RS1 presents the trebles. Either ways, they’re colorations. While it can sound extremely airy and light, but it does not add an organic weight and naturalness of RS1.

RS1 gives more substance to the trebles, yet manages to create longer decays. Trebles on DT880 do not appear in needle-like fashion. They can be rather attractive. However, I can hear a slight increase in output in this area albeit not as much as RS1.

With DT880, everything sounds a bit prettied-up. Not a bad thing per se. Trade off here is that you lose tension in the music. There is some blurring or slowing of sudden rhythmic shift going on.

On Earl Klugh’s ‘Whiplash’, intro acoustic guitar plucks lost all the anticipation of next notes and sounds somewhat muted.

 

In System 2, further extended and feathery trebles make the boundary problem heard in system 1 almost disappear. In fact, on some material, it sounded like music was coming from outside of the headphone. There is something going on in this upper frequency region that makes sound bites very real. RS1 does it from lower frequency whereas DT880 tries to achieve this realism from higher frequency. When the right combination strikes between DT880 and a source, it makes a compelling presentation. Avoid cables/source that gives emphasis or congestion in upper registers.

 

DT880 delivers music in a wider envelope than RS1. A slight emphasis is applied towards high frequencies yet, when they are well-resolved, it presents music in even-handed manner. It can be plenty explosive if partnering equipment is capable. It does not create a rhythmic fireworks, yet, shows its strength selectively and can sneak up on you with delightful musical subtlties.

 

Spacious within the boundaries of fones and provide very coherent presentation overall. Fluid, easy long-term listening and big on comfort. It does come alive more at higher volume than at a low listening level. Dynamics are slightly compromised in this regard.

When listening to the finale on the Zimerman/Boulez, ‘Concerto for the left hand in D major’, I preferred the sheer power and authority of RS1 much better than DT880. What an adrenalin rush!

RS1 can strut its ability to render dynamic shading better in the track like this.

 

Soundstaging tends to stay within ear cups. This depends on the recording, yet RS1 managed to float the notes outside boundaries more often than DT880. Depth rendition is quite good compared to RS1, however.

 

Image placement is also different from RS1. It presents music in a two- dimensional plane and less layering effect. RS1 places central vocals or solo instrument in protruded/forward manner surrounded by stronger outlines.

Once again, ‘Concerto for the left hand in D major’ track, DT880 gets the ambiance and blooms of a view from a second-floor balcony. Zimmerman is not singled out but presented as a part of the orchestra. Interestingly, this is similar to what I hear at a live concert.

The same track, via RS1 sounds like a closed-miked studio recording.

RS1 singles out Zimmerman. Lower registers on piano has more aurthoriy and fingerwork is well-separated, too. Here, a lack of transient attack on DT880 hurts piano rendition. But, it sounds just about right from the view DT880 places the central performer.

 

So, if you are looking for a facsimilie of live classical concert experience DT880 gets you closer. On the other hand, if you want to get a close-up view on pianist’s performance, RS1 is the way to go.

 

Mild coloration, albeit different from RS1s, is heard along with a slight softness in presence region. They both have a coloring of their own. These shadings are applied in different places within the frequency band between them. It does not sound as open as RS1. I can hear what sounds to be like a cabinet coloration, especially in the lower midband and midbass. It can sound hooty in this region. I wore these fones for a long time to see if they further open up. Along with bringing in AKG501 for midrange comparison as well as listening via Wilson WATT6 that has a fairly truthful midband. No matter which system it was in or driven by different sources, this coloration followed DT880. In the end, I concluded that this was a part of DT880 sound.

 

For vocal renditions, RS1 still has more believable presence, immediacy or right-here-ness. Central performers or instruments sound much more tactile and natural via RS1. I suspect this is due to DT880s timing smearing. Images are presented slightly softer and vague.

In addition, DT880 has a difficult time keeping up with slight change in tempo. Chuck Mangione’s ‘Feel so good’ intro bars, for instance, when rhythm section kicks in after a slow solo opening, DT880 can’t quite keep a rhythmic integrity together. It sounds as if rest of the band is trying to catch up. Or Christian McBrides’ ‘Little Sundflower’, a simple acoustic programme like this a timing precision becomes even more critical to propel the music forward. DT880 could not quite grasp and place each note in time.

 

Midbass is not as protruded as RS1. This quality gives a sense of flatter frequency transition. However, there are some emphasis applied to the upper presence region. Lack of midbass grip and output are also constant in all systems/sources. Percussive instruments were major casualties with DT880. On Ralph Lawson’s ‘Mr. Scruff-Shrimp’ contains energetic drum kit solo, RS1 gives each beat better definition without dragging it into a next note. Yet at the same time, subsequent cymbal shimmer falls into a blacker canvas. RS1 gives notes more space to breath. DT880 renders the same track with less conviction. One beat blends into the next one. This quality can sound either bland or pleasant depending on listener’s sonic preference. For me, RS1 can still resolve rhythmic subtleties better than DT880.

 

Upperbass transients are excellent. Probably this is best handled by DT880. It has enough transient attack and decay. Visceral, it isn’t. But the delivery is clean and relatively precise.

 

Lowbass: Even with Krell and NBS (both noted for their exceptional bass performance ) front end, it does not have the same authority of RS1. It tends to blend into the midbass. Extension is there, but output and precision are not anywhere near RS1. Piano sounds somewhat insubstantial. A grand piano sounds like a large upright. The bottom end authority lacks a bit over RS1. On Charles Websters’ ‘Fox Soup’ , the low register keys do not resonate convincingly as RS1. Extension is there but, DT880 lacks an initial impact of notes as well as harmonic richness and authority to realistically portray the left hand side of the scale.

 

Comfort is excellent. No fatigue even for all-day listening. However, I never got used to where cups covering my entire ears. It felt somewhat stifling. I suspect enclosure might have contributed to the coloration in the midrange.

 

I had a difficulty getting used to its soft midbass delivery and mild hooty cabinet coloration in the midband. Ultimately, the slight lag in timing precision and macro dynamics, for me, does not make it a suitable all-rounder.

 

But for most, DT880 is a capable mild-mannered headphone that gives enough insights to enjoy the music when partnered with synergistic ancillaries.

 

 

SYSTEM 1:Mac G4 laptop->Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link->DAC2->VPS->Concerto II->headphone transformer->DT880

Sources: WAV/AIFF files off HD/Bel Canto DAC2,Krell kps28c,Linn Ikemi

Amp: Art Audio Concerto II ultralinear push-pull ( 6550 Russian military cleartops/Amperex PQ 6922/ GE 12AX7 )

Signal cables: NBS Monitor-1 speaker cables/CPCC 12.0 IC/NBS Signature III digital

Power cords: NBS BL/Signature II/ Siltech G5 Ruby Hill

 

SYSTEM 2: Krell kps25s->Jota->headphone transformer->DT880

Source/Preamp: Krell kps25s

Amp: Art Audio Jota single-ended triode monoblock (KR 52BXL w. k-filament/Siemens Cca 6922/AWV Super Radiotron 12BH7/Mullards CV-378 )

Signal Cables: Kimber 8TC, Cardas GC or NBS BL speaker cables/NBS BL ICs

Power cords: NBS BL on all components.

[N@Z 0]

I nearly fell reading that! He lost me after I read the 'transformer' bit. Hope the SGH meet will make alot of people post their findings after that.

[ablaze 0]

I wish I could write a review like that. I mean, I've heard the RS-1 and 880s, but I could probably try to describe the differences in a lil more than a few sentences! damn it..I need an audiophile vocabulary

 

btw, somebody educate me:

I know bass

midrange

highs

 

NOW, whats low-bass, mid-bass,upper-bass, same for mids and highs..what instruments fall into what??

[fishball79 0]

N@Z,

 

Kuma uses a headphone tranny so basically the amp is connected to this tranny and then to cans. This allows headphones to be driven by conventional amps.

[evil-zen 0]

and he said his engrish is not good? good review but i want more k501 comparisons! oh well i'll know tomorrow.

[N@Z 0]

Fish, yes I noticed that hence that's where I lost interest as it is a different application to our dedicated headphone amps.

[fishball79 0]

*shrug* Its still a comparison of cans vs cans, just exotic amplification and cabling

[N@Z 0]

Maybe, I guess I assumed that the character might be changed due to amps suited more for speakers rather than headphones.

[fishball79 0]

NOW, whats low-bass, mid-bass,upper-bass, same for mids and highs..what instruments fall into what??

Ablaze,

 

Low Bass - 20 to 50hzhz

Mid bass 50-60hz

Upper bass 60hz to 100hz or so

 

Mids refer to the vocals and where MOST instruments resides.

Highs would be of course high frequencies, 5khz and beyond i believe... high hats, cymbals, trumpets, those sort.

 

[N@Z 0]

kick drums & bass guitar where?

[fishball79 0]

N@Z,

 

*blow whistle* OT! Heehee... I don't think freq response warrants a new thread tho since no cans uses multiple drivers so most wont bother.

 

Kick drum - mostly mid, some lows

 

bass guitar - lower part of mids, upper bass, mid bass and abit of lows.

 

Piano - from lows to high. Most difficult instrument to record and reproduce

 

Here's a url with more accurate information and a wider variety of instruments

http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

Edited June 20, 2003 by fishball79

[N@Z 0]

Sorry thanks. I get carried away when it comes to the techy bits as I'm still learning.

[Blues 0]

interesting review.. xcept for that transformer part..

anyway having owned a dt880 .. I can agree with most of his statements..

but that is comparing a 450 dollar hp with 1200 hehee..

I will try and audition these 2 extensively and report my findings..

ahh but I don't like to listen to grados for too long.. they have a lot of wow factors and once I put them on, I will get hypnotised to buy them