ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Since when did you take on the role of forum censor? Can I not share knowledge which I have learned from others? Is this not what a forum is for? Anyhow, I'm not sure why you have to speak with such a sarcastic tone. Did I say I have taken the role of the forum censor? Did I say you cannot share your knowledge with others? No, I did not. Moving on to more relevant matters: Note that I put inert air in quotation marks. Of course I know there is no such thing as inert air. It's part of Nordost's BS marketing literature. I am well aware that even some of the most inert elements (eg gold) can be made into compounds under the right conditions. About silver oxidising in contact with air, I think it is your own scientific knowledge that has let you down, "dude". If you were so keen on scientific terminology, I'm surprised you didn't pick this one out. Please hear me out. Oxidation can mean an increase in oxidation state so your rash statement about the word "oxidation" hinting at what caused it is partially incorrect. Technically, silver doesn't form oxides in normal atmospheric conditions. What it does form, however, is silver sulfide, Ag2S The reaction can be summarised as such: 2 Ag + H2S => Ag2S + H2 The oxidation number of silver on the left hand side is 0 as it is in elemental form. After reacting with H2S in the air, its oxidation number is now +1. An increase in oxidation number equals an oxidation reaction. Technically, this is a red(uction)ox(idation) reaction because hydrogen goes from being in +1 oxidative state to 0. Sulfur's oxidation state remains constant at -2. I hope that justifies what I've said. Peace. Inert air, you can say it is marketing (literature??), think about it and you will see it is more of their incompetence in basic chemistry. Btw, it was not my rash statement that made me say "oxidation" to hint you, it was merely to hint to you if you don't get it. Oxidation = related to oxygen??? Lol. There isn't anything scientific to it, don't write into it so much. About oxidation, it is not a gain in oxidation state. Oxidation states do not change. Oxidation is the loss of electrons in simple. If you want to talk about tarnishing of silver by sulphur, there is no significant sources of sulphur in the environment we live in (unless you are a miner or what so ever), and don't even talk about it around silver cables. The main issue here is really oxidation. p.s. Using the word Peace does not justify your personal attacks like,"I think it is your own scientific knowledge that has let you down, "dude" " - its lame. Chill yeah? There isn't much about what I say that you have to read so much into it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heady 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 In the forum, when we discuss, we can disagree, after all no one has a monopoly on knowledge. But if one has the attitude that one is always right, soon no one will want to discuss any issue with that person. And that will not be a discussion but a monologue. So we always need to give and take during a discussion, we need to be polite to each other even if we disagree. That's how we can learn from each other. Re: sulphur in the air, it exist in the form of air pollution especially from the burning of fossil fuels. Of course not the elemental sulphur but compounds. It is one of the major causes of acid rain. I have found that some insulation can prevent tarnishing of copper. My Naim speaker cables are very old, more than 20 years. Recently when I needed to strip more of the insulation off, the copper strands were still shiny although the exposed parts were all very tarnished. I wonder if the air insulated silver wire will be just as protected by the "inert air". I just don't think so. After all, not all insulation are the same. For example, some IEMs cables are transparent and will show the cables turned green after some time. So did my old Monster Cables which are also in transparent insulation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 just to point out loss of electrons = change in oxidation state. so milkpowder is correct in that sense eg. Na - > Na+ + e- Na change from 0 to +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 I get what you mean Heady, but sometimes you cant help it when other people are pretty hostile too yeah? As for the sulphuric compounds, their reactivity is highly debatable too (whether they will actually react with silver or not). That I have no idea. Well, changes to oxidation state only occurs when elements are bonded with others to form compounds and that varies for an element bonded to this group or another group. The oxidation state of an element is usually not represented by the charge on the atom, so I don't think milkpowder is correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 i quote from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redox "Oxidation and reduction properly refer to a change in oxidation number — the actual transfer of electrons may never occur." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 "the actual transfer of electrons may never occur" is for a redox reaction. A redox reaction is when oxidation and reduction occurs in the same reaction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 when there is an oxidation process, there will be a reduction process. they occurs in pairs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Well, not in all reactions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 mind enlightening me to a process where there is only oxidation/reduction and no subsequent reduction/oxidation? personally i havent come accross one and it will be good to know more thanx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) Haha. How about the one you just mentioned? Na -> Na+ + e- Or HCl + H20 -> H3O + Cl- ? Edited November 14, 2007 by ezzo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) thats is called an half equation in this case Na is oxidised to Na+ there will be a subsequent species that will be reduced for eg. Cl Cl + e- -> Cl- thus when u combine 2 half equations u get Na + Cl -> NaCl to put relation to audio copper react with oxygen in the air. Cu -> Cu2+ + 2e- (oxidation. Cu from 0 oxidation state to +2) O2 + 4e- -> 2O2- (reduction. O from 0 to -2) thus : 2Cu + O2 -> 2CuO Haha. How about the one you just mentioned? Na -> Na+ + e- Or HCl + H20 -> H3O + Cl- ? they are half equations. Edited November 14, 2007 by Cloud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Yep, it is a half reaction. Another one here: HCl + NaOH -> NaCl + H20 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Yep, it is a half reaction. Another one here: HCl + NaOH -> NaCl + H20 which 1 is reduced which 1 is oxidised? this is a neutralisation process. no oxidation no reduction. i dun get wat u trying to point out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezzo 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Mistake. SCl4(l) + 2H2O(l) --> SO2(g) + 4HCl(g) SCl4 --> SO2 Gains 2 O, Oxidised H20 --> HCl Loses 1 O and loses 1 H, therefore, no oxidation/reduction. Btw, I don't specialise in Redox equations nor Chemistry, these are just my secondary school Chemistry. Man, its late, gonna sleep. Nights dude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloud 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) Mistake. SCl4(l) + 2H2O(l) --> SO2(g) + 4HCl(g) SCl4 --> SO2 Gains 2 O, Oxidised H20 --> HCl Loses 1 O and loses 1 H, therefore, no oxidation/reduction. nope. you dun count like that initial: S has oxidation state of +4 Cl has OS of -1 H has OS of +1 O has OS of +2 Final S still +4 Cl still -1 H +1 O +2 so again there is no oxidation no reduction counting oxygen and H is a very primitive way to describe redox the proper way is to count changes in oxidation numbers. anyway lets leave this chem discussion here. this is about teflon wire. no oxidation states. pm me if u wan to discuss further cheers! Edited November 14, 2007 by Cloud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites