NOS DACs

[hellfire112 0]

Hey guys, need some opinions.

 

been looking for a source as some of you guys here know. finally decided to aim for a DAC with optical and usb inputs over a entry level cd player.

 

i been looking at headfi for answers but still couldnt decide on which one to get, either they were out of my budget or they just didnt fit my requirements.

 

saw a Valab NOS DAC and Ack! Industries dAck! 1.2e (NOS DAC) for sale at prices within my tiny budget and it got me a bit interested in NOS DAC.

 

read up a bit and seems like NOS DAC do not use any op amps and they are non-oversampling.

 

please correct me if i am wrong.

 

anyone have any experience with NOS DACs? which are the good ones?(i don really trust headfi hypebeasts)

 

thanks.

[ical 0]

DAC is a digital component. It gets better with technology like cdp. So the newer model you get, the better it is.

Edited February 27, 2009 by ical

[jojo_b2 0]

Hi Hellfire,

 

I agree with Cal. DACs are digital in nature. Any new algorithm or technology does make a difference in final output. Even CDPs should follow the same route. Though DACs are still electrical devices so the quality of the components will also have a hand in the total result and the PRICE.

 

Mind posting your budeget? Lets see what can we pull out. Some new Dacs such as the Audio GD compass are good for the price point.

 

A not so old post I found on HeadFi. =)

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/all-dacs...-pt-2-a-325941/

 

An older post.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/blogs/granod...asier-dacs.html

 

[hellfire112 0]

hey guys thanks for the clarification. cant trust headfi hypebeasts

 

jojo: awesome link! thanks, didnt know there are so many other dac around the dacmagic price range.

 

the Xindak DAC-3 MKII looks good from pictures with twin transformers. gotta try eric dac-5 to hear xindak house sound.

 

edit: just went to check out Cyberfrog - PS Audio Digital link III DAC. The transformer size totally trash the dac-3 2 twin transformer combined. lol

Edited February 28, 2009 by hellfire112

[direcow 0]

Some guy has been posting about Valad on the compass thread... seems like he was just wanting to kick up a ruckus.

[kidult 0]

hey guys thanks for the clarification. cant trust headfi hypebeasts

 

jojo: awesome link! thanks, didnt know there are so many other dac around the dacmagic price range.

 

the Xindak DAC-3 MKII looks good from pictures with twin transformers. gotta try eric dac-5 to hear xindak house sound.

 

i think the shop didn't bring in DAC3 only DAC5

[cyberfrog 0]

PS Audio has always been about good, clean power.

 

Wait till you see their PPP....Premier Power Plant. It's like having your own hifi-grade electrical generator...

 

I've not heard the Xindak 5 DAC. I have tested their Tube Pre-amp tho (XA3250... http://www.xindak.com/english/products/sho...ail.asp?id=271). I must say Xindak makes very nice (as in aesthetics) components. However, their technological aspects i feel still fall short of Western stds. The pre-amp sounded nice and smooth and warm...typical of what you would expect of tubes. However, you lose out in dynamic range, clarity and soundstage.

 

If you can get them at a cheap price, then worthwhile (they are much more affordable in HKG)...but at local prices, they are over-priced for their level of performance.

 

 

edit: just went to check out Cyberfrog - PS Audio Digital link III DAC. The transformer size totally trash the dac-3 2 twin transformer combined. lol

 

[wwenze 0]

The NOS stands for non-oversampling... google it and you can find out what it means and why it's good. The NOS DACs you saw might not have op-amps, probably because the DACs are of high-quality nature hence discrete buffer.

 

That shouldn't sway your decision though. The rest of the components are more important than one single DAC or op-amp chip.

[peanutbutterjam 0]

The NOS stands for non-oversampling... google it and you can find out what it means and why it's good. The NOS DACs you saw might not have op-amps, probably because the DACs are of high-quality nature hence discrete buffer.

 

That shouldn't sway your decision though. The rest of the components are more important than one single DAC or op-amp chip.

Yes. NOS just mean Non-Over-Sampling. NOS DACs can either have opamps or not. Some use discrete opamp topologies, some use IC opamps.

 

Point is, NOS DACs are just a kind of DAC which does not use oversampling chips. Period. It does not mean old or new, nor does it refer to its amp stage topology. Older DACs are usually NOS since upsampling chips are a relatively new thing.

 

Some claim NOS is better, some claim upsample is better, blah blah blah. I can only say that its very difficult to A/B this, because most DACs with upsampling does not allow you to switch off the upsampling. If at all, they usually only allow selection of 96kHz/192kHz upsampling modes.

 

Having said that this really begs the question why chip companies bother developing upsampling chips if its useless. They aren't that cheap either.

 

Now as a matter of fact (unless i got it wrong), upsampling IS NOT oversampling, though how so I have no idea. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can share?

Edited March 4, 2009 by peanutbutterjam

[Rameish 0]

DAC is a digital component. It gets better with technology like cdp. So the newer model you get, the better it is.

 

Logically yes but not quite true. I found a lot of up-sampling DACs used in CDPs or even stand alone DACs tend to produce an unnatural sound. They sound clean with better resolution initially but as time passes they become irritating ( well to me at least). There are of course a few that do sound very good but they really cost an arm and a leg (so I wont go there for now). I was a bit puzzled because some of these that sounded bad used the same dacs as those that sounded good and often you couldnt tell by looking at the price tag as well. Anyways I've come to the conclusion it's all about design and implementation - not chips and decoders. It even boilts down to type of resistors used believe it or not!

 

 

16 Bit 44.1 khz technology is unfortunately flawed - think of it this way: Regular CDs are a chopped down version of Vinyl which is an altered sound (with pops etc) of the original master tape. So CD is actually yesterday's MP3! That is, in the day of vinyl and open reel tapes, the 16 bit 44.1 khz offered a logical way to compress music onto a relatively small disc. Our loss - less is not always better :-)

 

Use you ears lah! If it sounds good to you then it is good whatever the technology - older DAC chip can sound very good with or without oversampling. And yes up-sampling can likewise sound good too. There no perfect technology out there that does away with the need to design somthing carefully - of course there's a lot of bull sh*t as well. Take a look at this: How an upmarket brand does a con job:-

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/goldmund-...pioneer-285743/