Help needed for speaker setup

[Edwin 0]

Hi guys,

 

I have been busy with my home setup lately, swapped my old Kenwood DP-3080 for an even older Rotel RCD-855.

 

I am using a Onkyo AV919 integrated amp as the main power source for a pair of Tannoys, a pair of Yamahas and a Yamaha centre speakers. Usually I am using just the Tannoys for my CDs.

 

Just been told by my uncle, who happened to be the owner of this set, that the Tannoys have 4 input jacks on them. I took a look earlier that there are 4 jacks labeled as HF+, HF-, LF+, LF-. The current config is that both strands of the wire on the speaker cable are split and joined to both the +'s and -'s.

 

Is there a better way to set the speakers up? Are these speakers capable of going balanced? If so, how can I hook them up to the Onkyo int. amp???

 

Sorry if I sound confused, cos I am newbie when it comes to speaker setups.

[heady 0]

The speakers are capable of being bi-amp. Ie the HF are the high frequency tweeters have their own inputs, similarly the LF, the low frequency woofers.

 

The idea is that you can use different amplifiers to power the tweeter and woofer separately. This allows more power to be delivered to the speakers but cost more since you need two identical stereo amps or 4 monobloc amps.

 

I saw two small little JBL Power20s being used in this way to bi-amp a pair of Dynaudios in Anything Audio and they sounded real good! Imagine $500 worth of amps driving speakers costing nearly a grand.

[Edwin 0]

Thanks for the reply heady.

 

Another question popped up in my mind. If 2 amps are needed, how do I connect the cdp which has a set of analog and a coaxial digital outputs to the amps?

[afbug 0]

Connect the output of your CDP to the input of your preamp/integrated. From the preamp's preout, connect to a pair of 2 ch amps.

 

Bi amping is not easy and is very expensive. Think twice! Try bi wiring 1st?

 

Some pic here:

http://www.oregondv.com/Audio_FAQ_Bi-Wire_Bi-amp%20.htm

[Mackie 0]

Bi amping is not easy and is very expensive. Think twice!  Try bi wiring 1st?

 

Not when it's the JBL Power20. Yours truly bought a pair of these amp and set it up as monobloc ie, one amp to drive one speaker. Each Power20 amp costs $250 and a pair at $500. I bought 5m of Belden 1810A (4-core) speakers cable which costs $25 and a pair of 1 x female RCA > 2 X male RCA splitters at $5.60/pair. Total cost is only $530.60.

 

Schematics: assuming amp (A) drives right speaker and amp (' drives left speaker

 

1. CDP right channel > female RCA > left/right male RCA splitter > left/right amp (A) RCA input

Repeat the same connection from CDP left channel to amp ('

 

2. Amp (A) speaker left /right +ve > +ve of speaker; amp (A) speaker left/right -ve > -ve speaker

Repeat the same connection between amp (' and the other speaker

 

This is the setup and idea made to AA after I discovered the amp on one of my visit. Needless to say I bought a pair on the spot after learning of its potential.

 

 

Heady is right, the amps drive Dynaudio Acoustics speakers (and these are infamous as being a tough load to drive) beautifully and more so when set up as monobloc or bi-amp. Sonic returns doubled in the bass region especially. My friends and I have bought these babies to drive difference speakers such as Energy, Kef and Dynaudio. The amps sound more lively and dynamic with speakers of 8 ohm impedance and high sensitivity. The Dynaudios are 4ohm and 85db in impedance and sensitivity.

 

Just been told by my uncle, who happened to be the owner of this set, that the Tannoys have 4 input jacks on them. I took a look earlier that there are 4 jacks labeled as HF+, HF-, LF+, LF-. The current config is that both strands of the wire on the speaker cable are split and joined to both the +'s and -'s.

 

Is there a better way to set the speakers up? Are these speakers capable of going balanced? If so, how can I hook them up to the Onkyo int. amp???

 

The 4 binding post of each speaker confirms its meant for bi-wiring ie, allowing the tweeter and woofer of each speaker to be driven separately.

 

Edwin, in your case, the connection from your CDP is the same as I've mentioned above. However, note the changes on connection between each amp to speaker:

 

** Amp (A) speaker left +ve/-ve > Tannoy HF +ve/-ve

** Amp (A) speaker right +ve/-ve > Tannoy LF +ve/-ve

Repeat the same with amp (' with the other speaker. This connection denotes left channel of both amps will drive the tweeters whilest right channel of the amps drive the woofers.

 

Check out the pictures I've posted earlier.

http://www.sgheadphones.net/index.php?showtopic=4451

 

On a final note, I reckon JBL Power20 may be a Class A amp which delivers much higher current to load than Class AB. The tell tale signs are the heat sink and the chassis is warm to tough after a mere 30 mins. The most obvious sign is how it handles difficult load like Dynaudio. Class A amps usually cost a whole or a hole (pun intended) lot more! In fact, I'm working on a review to highlight this amp to fellow forumers. As yet, it will benefit all who has home theater systems, pc based systems, speakers systems and more importantly, AKG K1000 users (only one amp will do, of course).

Edited March 2, 2006 by Mackie

[neutralzz 0]

well edwin, you could try using jumpers though. i've heard excellent results when a pair of copper cables were plugged straight into the low frequencie of the speaker, and using silver wire to serve as jumpers for the higher frequencies.

 

bi-amping is not very expensive these days, influx of china amplifiers have brought down the costs tremendously. digital amps like the moles also come in pairs.

 

mackie's way is the conventional way of bi-amping but i've seen alternative versions of cabling

 

depends on whether you use a pre-amp cuz many pre-amps offer more than one pair of outputs to power amps thus making your life much easier.

 

another way of bi-amping is solely using 1 single amp per speaker, i.e. one of your IC carries the left channel signal, one carries the right. the left channel signal goes into both the poweramp's left right channels, the right channel signal goes into the other power amp left right channel inputs too.

 

 

if you dont intend to bi-amp, then using a single integrated amp you could consider playing around with the cables.

[Mackie 0]

mackie's way is the conventional way of bi-amping but i've seen alternative versions of cabling

 

I agree. Please note my way of connection is only relative to using the JBL Power20 as the amp. Different amps will require different methods. However, the topic of this thread is the selection of an amp and not bi-amping nor bi-wiring. In Edwin's case, he needs to clarify if he wishes to purchase a pre-power setup or just an integrated amp for connection to his Tannoys, since the Onkyo amp will be solely used for the Yamaha speakers.

 

Target on amp recommendations and we can come to the connections later.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Mackie

[heady 0]

Heady is right, the amps drive Dynaudio Acoustics speakers (and these are infamous as being a tough load to drive) beautifully and more so when set up as monobloc or bi-amp. Sonic returns doubled in the bass region especially. My friends and I have bought these babies to drive difference speakers such as Energy, Kef and Dynaudio. The amps sound more lively and dynamic with speakers of 8 ohm impedance and high sensitivity. The Dynaudios are 4ohm and 85db in impedance and sensitivity.

Mackie, I was blown away. My 20 year old hifi set up uses a pair of Arcam speakers and 2 Meridian 100W monoblocs which 20 years ago cost about 4 times that setup in AA. I too asked Albert if the Power20 were class A but he thought it couldn't be since they were so cheap.

 

But I must say, a single Power20 driving the Dynaudios were much less impressive. But bi-amp, they sing.

 

[Edwin 0]

Thanks for all the replies guys...

 

Sure learnt something about bi-wiring and bi-amping. Anyway, I am not against the idea of having 2 separate amps to drive the Tannoys, in fact, I was discussing with my uncle, the idea of getting a set of Rotel power amp with a pre-amp and two mono-blocks to complete the Rotel setup. If the need arises, maybe a DTS/DDS decoder for the surround movie mode?

 

What you guys think? After listening to my newly acquired RCD-855, I am really in love with how the Rotel sounds. Can understand why I keep reading about how musical they sound. Wondering how a whole set of Rotels would sound...

 

[Mackie 0]

It's best to audition carefully and keep you options open. Even if you love the sound of a Rotel cdp, a whole system comprising of Rotel doesn't guarantee nirvana. An example such as one who loves the warmth of a Marantz cdp may experience a little drag in tempo and possibly too much warmth if the entire system comprises of Marantz. Although synergy will be achieved from a setup comprising of the same make or series, the same synergy can also be gotten by analysing the different sonic characteristics of each equipment and balance them out. Example, Marantz CD6000ose may sound a bit hot in the treble with solid-state amp but this sonic characteristic actually bodes well with tube amps as it give greater treble extension and presence to this spectrum. Similarly, an overly laid back cdp partnered with a warm sounding amp may result in a sound lacking attack and tempo drag.

 

Heady: I strongly believe the JBL Power20 runs in pseudo class A mode (if there's such a classification) owing to its no-nonsense heat sink and the heat generated. Price is not a good barometer of quality. I think this amp is an undiscovered gem, just like the recent hoo-har over Sonic T-amp. Oh yes, I can claim credit for setting up the monobloc config using the Power20 amps at AA. It was just too good not to try it on the spot after hearing the sound from a single amp driving the Dyanudios.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Mackie

[Mackie 0]

If the need arises, maybe a DTS/DDS decoder for the surround movie mode? 

 

U don't need a decoder anymore. Most contemporary (even Akira) dvd players have DTS/Dolby Digital decoders on board. You can simply tap the signal from each channel to the amps and complete a home theater setup.

[Edwin 0]

Thanks for the reminder Mackie. But I wonder how do one audit in the shop to find out the synergy when the cdp is at home???

 

I am also planning to output the Rotel out to a tube headphone amp when it arrives from China, courtesy of digi01. How do you recommend I link up the integrated amp and the headphone amp to the cdp? Would using a splitter at the cdp level degrades the sq???

 

Currently the Onkyo is handling the DTS decoding therefore I have all the 5 speakers hooked up to it. My dvd player though DTS capable, it has only 1 set of rca out for sound... Difficult for me to visualize it linking to the amp to create the desired effects?

 

 

[afbug 0]

A decoder or built in decoder will have the 5.1 RCA outouts, so you can hook up to the amps. The problem is dunno if those built in decoder DVD players' output are preout. If its fixed level out, i think you need to hook up to a 5.1 ready preamp. If its preout, then can go directly to the power amps.

 

Your DVD player should have a set of RCA output for stereo sound and coaxial and digital outputs for the DTS/DD. A DTS/DD decoder DVD player will have the additional 5.1 RCA outputs. If you want better SQ, get a better decoder/DVDP or HT amp.

 

Use your tape loop to connect the headphone tube amp. No need splitter?

 

markie, i dunno power amps so cheap these days. Ooooooo maybe its time to give up headfi and go hifi.

[Mackie 0]

Thanks for the reminder Mackie. But I wonder how do one audit in the shop to find out the synergy when the cdp is at home???

 

Unless U own an EMC1 (kekekeke), I believe at your age, you should not have a problem lugging your cdp around shops for auditions. After all, don't we all had our route marches with full pack? ******just being naughty *****

 

Currently the Onkyo is handling the DTS decoding therefore I have all the 5 speakers hooked up to it. My dvd player though DTS capable, it has only 1 set of rca out for sound... Difficult for me to visualize it linking to the amp to create the desired effects?

 

Simple, stay away from analogue connection. Buy a 75ohm cable (eg Belden 1694a terminated with Canare plugs, approx $20 or less per meter) and link the digital out of dvdp to digital input of your Onkyo amp.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2006 by Mackie

[Mackie 0]

markie, i dunno power amps so cheap these days.  Ooooooo maybe its time to give up headfi and go hifi

 

The JBL Power20 is an integrated amp. It's a treasure find and you are still right, good power amps are still expensive and all the more so with Class A amps.

 

In which case, I've done an experiement in connecting a cheap Akira dvdp with on board decoder to my pair of Power20s. Works like a charm! More later when I produce a detailed piece of this amp which I think everyone should go and have a listen. For the price and performance, simply no brainer.