Rolling tubes on X-Can V3

[dirtbikedba 0]

Hi,

 

I actually have an X-Can V3 on order but I wanted to have some nice tubes to roll into it as soon as it came through the front door. "The v3 is outfitted with a low feedback circuit taken from their Tri-Vista SACD player with ECC82 tubes and ALPS volume control which lowers distortion and improves signal-to-noise ratios, resulting in better imaging and detail retrieval." Hmmm, I've got plenty of 6922/6dj8/ecc88/ccA/7308/6h23-eb tubes laying around but now I've got to go in search of 12AU7's. Has anybody rolled the tubes in their X-Can V3 yet? Any advice on ECC82/E82CC/E802S/12AU7 tubes?

[lengcm 0]

Hi,

 

I actually have an X-Can V3 on order but I wanted to have some nice tubes to roll into it as soon as it came through the front door. "The v3 is outfitted with a low feedback circuit taken from their Tri-Vista SACD player with ECC82 tubes and ALPS volume control which lowers distortion and improves signal-to-noise ratios, resulting in better imaging and detail retrieval." Hmmm, I've got plenty of 6922/6dj8/ecc88/ccA/7308/6h23-eb tubes laying around but now I've got to go in search of 12AU7's. Has anybody rolled the tubes in their X-Can V3 yet? Any advice on ECC82/E82CC/E802S/12AU7 tubes?

The best bet is to check with headphonecrazy or rameish

[Rameish 0]

Please dont use a 12 volt tube like the 12AU7 in 6 volt applications for starters.

[dirtbikedba 0]

Maybe I'm confused but I thought that a 12AU7 was a 6 volt tube if you wire the heaters in parallel or 12 volt tube if you wired them in series. The 12 signifies that there are 12 components in the tube. Again, I ask. Does anyone actually have an X-Can V3 and has anyone actually rolled the tubes in it yet? Thanks!

 

http://www.jj-electronic.com/tube_ecc82.htm

ECC82

 

12AU7

R.F. DOUBLE TRIODE

 

DIMENSIONS AND CONNECTIONS:

 

base: NOVAL

Uf = 6,3 V 12,6 V

If = ca .300 mA 150 mA

 

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTIC:

 

Ua = 250 V

Ug = -8,5 V

Ia = 10,5 mA

S = 2,2 mA/V

Ri = 7,7 kOhm

µ = 17

AS PHASE INVERTER:

 

system I system II

Ub = 250 350 V

Ia = 0,7 1,0 mA

Ia' = 0,68 0,93 mA

Uo/Ug1 = 11 11

Uo = 15 24 VRMS

dtot = 1 1 %

LIMITING VALUES:

 

Ua = 300 V

Wa = 2,75 W

Ik = 20 mA

Ug = -50 V

Rg = 1 MOhm

Uk/f = 180 V

Rk/f = 150 kOhm

CAPACITANCES:

 

system I system II

Cg/k = 1,9 1,9 pF

Ca = 1,9 1,8 pF

Cg/a = 1,63 pF 1,63 pF

 

 

[Barradio 0]

Check this http://www.sgheadphones.com/index.php?showtopic=1175

 

Beside tudes rolls, you can do caps rolls too.

Also ECC85 ccan be use too but at your own risk.

Edited January 21, 2004 by Barradio

[dirtbikedba 0]

Thanks Bar. That article indicates that the x-can v3 still uses the 6922 type tubes. I'm still a bit confused as to the actual tube compliment on the X-Can V3. I purchased the amp from:

 

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detai...sku=AMUFIXCANV3

 

Which had this to say about it...

Overview

 

MUSICAL FIDELITY/X-CANV3 HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER

 

They took the "can" out of the X-Can!

 

In 1995, Musical Fidelity shook the audio world with their X-Series line of components. This series of tube electronics, as with all Musical Fidelity products, offers unmatched price-to-performance value and astonishing build quality at prices any audiophile can afford. Now in its third generation, the new X-CAN v3 offers a huge increase in performance over the older model; higher output, minimized crosstalk, and greatly improved channel balance. The v3 is outfitted with a low feedback circuit taken from their Tri-Vista SACD player with ECC82 tubes  and ALPS volume control which lowers distortion and improves signal-to-noise ratios, resulting in better imaging and detail retrieval. The X-CAN v3 possesses a tremendous sense of speed with added bass extension and dynamic capabilities. Plug any set of headphones into this amazing sounding tube headphone amplifier and get connected to the music in a way you've never before experienced! Call Music Direct for recommendations on which headphones mate best with the X-CAN v3.

 

The usual market hype about how this amp will reveal hidden tracks on all your music and make your teeth whiter too but this definitely lead me to believe that it had 12AU7/ECC82/ECC802S tubes in it. If it does in fact have the plain old 6DJ8/6922/7308 RF amp tubes in it, I'm going to be a bit grumpy about it. I've gone to 12AU7's on my Antique Sound Lab MG-Head amps, that with a liberal helping of multi-caps and the change is phenominal. I guess if the x-cans won't use the nifty new telefunken and bugle boys I just bought, I will have to go back into the MG-Heads and see if I can design the noisy transformer out of the circuit completely.

[headphonecrazy 0]

I've used the Siemens CCa on them, sounded most musical with this tubes. The Bugle Boys are very good too, very airy and 3D. Alternatively if you can find the Sylvania GB 6922s, which is a class act no doubt.

 

But the ultimate question is what cans will you be pairing it with.

[dirtbikedba 0]

I'll be using Grado RS-1's and Sennheiser HD650's with Cardas cable. Amsmusicdirect has a nice bundled package with the HD650, 15' Cardas cable and X-Can V3. Should sound pretty sweet after the tube roll. I will be doing a cap roll for sure too. Does anyone have a schematic for the v3? If there are any caps in the signal path that aren't dc biased, I will be replacing them with multicaps. I hate it when they put a noisy electrolytic in the signal path without any difference of potential between the cathode and anode to get the dielectric to do something besides lie there and quiver...

[dirtbikedba 0]

X-CAN V3 has arrived! Man, that was quick. I gotta hand it to the guys at http://www.amusicdirect.com, I ordered it Sunday and it is already here with HD-650's and a Cardas cable. First impressions, prettyf cool. HD-600's are nice and relaxed and airy without being sibilant. Bass is coming out even as I type. I'm sure the x-can will need some help. I'll open it up this weekend and see what is in there the box. In the good old days, they used to put the circuit diagram in the box. This thing is big enough to have a full schematic. It doesn't seem heavy enough for output transformers. OTL? That means lots of capacitor replacement opportunities.

 

Well, the 650's keep warming up. Lots of finesse here. Excellent dampening. Next song, I'll stick the RS-1's on the x-can and the 650's on the customatic Antique Sound Labs MG Head (Mullard CV2975's and Siemens E822CC and all signal path capacitors replaced with Multicaps.

 

Acksssssssssss X-CAN issssss ssssooooo sssssibilent on Grado RS-1, 650's sound like they are being played through a pillow on the MG head. Switching back. WIll check again in a day or two after everything is broken in.

[cmk 0]

to the club.

[Rameish 0]

Well if you wish to mod it then by all means do but I can't tell you if it'll be safe or not as I'm not a techincal person. Your best bet would be to check out the specs at http://tdsl.duncanamps.com.

 

There are sufficient subs for 6DJ8 tubes without needing to mod for 12AU7 tubes. However if you wish to do so then go to www.audioasylum.com and check out the tube section.

[dirtbikedba 0]

Hi Rameish,

 

Thanks for the concern for my health and safety. Sorry for the confusion. This is why I thought the X-CAN V3 had ECC82's. Here is an excerpt from the write up on the web site where I purchased the amp:

The v3 is outfitted with a low feedback circuit taken from their Tri-Vista SACD player with ECC82 tubes and ALPS volume control which lowers distortion and improves signal-to-noise ratios, resulting in better imaging and detail retrieval.

 

This indicated significant circuit changes and ECC82/12AU7 tubes.If this circuit is significantly different from the X-XCAN V2, the tuning lore for the V2 wouldn't apply to the V3.

 

I wouldn't plan on modifying a circuit based on 6DJ8's to 12AU7's. It would take too much modification. What I would be interested in is changing out all the caps and if there were any electrolytic caps in the signal path, replacing them with poly caps, Multicaps if they would fit in the box (think D battery size for .47 uf 200V).

 

Headphone update... The AKG-K1000 with highly modified Assemblage 300B SET (WE 300B, 1950's Mullard 6SN7GTY and custom transformers) still takes first place. It just keeps my wife up at night because it is too loud. There are no cups on these cans so they are as loud in the next room as they are on your head! They still have the best imaging as they mimic a live show by allowing the left ear to hear some of the content from the right ear speaker and vica verca with a slight delay from the trip behind the head. They get a little heavy after a while though.

 

The HD650's are breaking in nicely. Some how they manage to give a very good sense of depth. Wow, very nice imaging. A litle flat after the AKG-K1000. Tube roll on X-CAN V3 will probably help that... Better bass though. That ear cup comes in handy. These things are very comfortable. Excellent dampening.

 

MG HEAD with Grado RS-1 in OTL mode. Multicaps in signal path, Mullard CV2975(EL84) and Siemens E82CC. Excellent bass. Great vocals and snare. Sort of 2 dimensional after the K-1000 and HD-650. Very nice though. With current configuration, the frequency response is fuller than the HD-650's and a stock X-CAN.

 

WIll begin tube rolling this weekend.

[Rameish 0]

I think if you're looking for a 5 to 10% improvement then tube rolling and some cap changes should do the trick. One of the best tube amps i've tried with the Grado RS-1 is the Micro Zotl.

I've tried 2 X-Cans V3. One with everthing stock - okay. And another that belonged to Headphonecrazy with some rare Siemens with caps upgraded. I would say it was 10% better than stock however I listened to them at different times with different IC and source.

 

Have fun tube rolling - don't go crazy ya

 

Cheers