shengya /vincent cd players

[haxyer 0]

how does it sound ? i am currently using the denon dcd-735 and its quite good. i thinking of changing to vincent/ shengya players, is it good ?

[Mackie 0]

In regard to cdps, just make sure that local replacement of laser pickup is available as there is a life span to it. Otherwise, avoid these brands. There are lots of other makes with full service backup to choose from.

[haxyer 0]

or would it better to get a transport and dac ? which will sound better for the same amount of money between using a transport/ dac combo and a fully built cd player ?

[Rameish 0]

The advantages of using a CD transport + dac is pretty obvious however I have adviced against doing it because of jitter and other issues. There are ways around it but it can get expensive. Of couse if you use the same manufacturer's DAC then that shouldnt be a problem. A nice CD Transport to get brand new is the CEC TL-51X (S$1,400 new) or get the CDP the CEC TL51XR for S$1800). An alternative is the TEAC CDP VRDS-15 CDP at around S$2,800- S$2,900. It's from TEAC's non exoteric line but still uses a good transport mech.

 

It's really up to you which route you want to take but the advantage of getting a CDP with good transport is that you dont have to get your DAC now.At a later date you can experiment with different DACs if you so wish.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Rameish

[[J]-ohn 0]

Although transport + dac is a good idea but I'm not a believer that they sound better than a cdp, depending on which transport + dac and cdp you're comparing with. Anyway, for transport +dac you'll need to worry for another digital cable and powercord which are both very crucial, screw that up and you're getting urself in a lot of unnnecessary money issues.

[Rameish 0]

John, agree. Thats why I'm not an advocate of the transport + dac if you have less thne $5k to spend. The seperate CDT + DAC route does start offering significant advantages once you cross into really high end stuff. Like the Burmester CDT and DAC. If I were to play around with it, I would get a CDP with good transport then audition various DACs to see what improvement if any it brings when compared to the DA section that came with the CDP. Purists however would disagree and say that the additional DA section in the CDP would affect the sonics -vely. Frankly I would audition extensively. For example I would compare the CECTL51XR CDP versus the CECTL51X (CDT) and CEC DX51MkIII (DAC) as a combo. Then what I would do is compare the CDP hooked up to the dac. There's no substitue for a good audio dealer where you can audition to your heart's content.

[heady 0]

I apologise the thread hijack but, given the argument that a separate CDP and DAC is not beneficial to sound quality until we hit the 5K money limit, what is a good CDP in the approx 1K level? Thanks to all the gurus.

[Mackie 0]

or would it better to get a transport and dac ? which will sound better for the same amount of money between using a transport/ dac combo and a fully built cd player ?

 

 

It's a myth to assume a separate transport+dac will sound superior to a one-box cdp. Yes, the former offers separate power supplies (to transport and dac) and enjoys greater flexible in upgrading if higher upsampling dacs are on the offing. However, jitters become the Archilles feet and a huge one at that. Moreover, a separate combo is no longer as feasible as in the early days when upgrades to 16-bit dac were available at 20-bit and later, 24-bit. In fact, the 24-bit dac stays around with its highest sampling rate at 196KHz to date. Instead of seeing further evolution in dacs, we see improvement in cd format ie, SACD. XRCD, DVDA and up and coming Blu-ray.

 

Therefore, we are back to the rule of thumb, short signal path is best. A transport+dac combo will need a jitter bug in the midst to address the detriment jitter issues, thus, contributing to longer signal path but this trade off does not often guarantee better sound quality, not unless, you wish to retain an old cdp player with great transport and add a more contemporary dac to it. To summarise it all, if you don't have a cdp, take a one-box approach. If you have an old cdp which U like to upgrade its digital end, an outboard dac is feasible.

 

what is a good CDP in the approx 1K level?

 

Does a Rega Planet 2000 qualify although it costs between 1-2K actually? Marantz cdps usually come in below the 1K mark.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Mackie

[haxyer 0]

thanks for that great insight mackie. i also got another question, would the laser pickup inside the old player affect the sound if i am using a DAC and the old player as a transport ?

Edited July 8, 2006 by haxyer

[Mackie 0]

The circuitry prior to DAC is known as the digital stage which begins with the laser pickup. If you wanna go into immense details, it should start from the cd media and how well the laser beam hits and reflects from its surface blah blah blah..... In a word, a laser pickup with glass lens will last longer than plastic ones (seen in lower end Marantz cdps eg. CD6000 etc). I wouldn't say it's key to better sound quality but more so for longetivity. You should view the whole mechanism as a whole to decide if the cdp is worth its weight in serving as a standalone transport. Next consider the inherent DAC. Although a contemporary DAC such as 24 bit/96Khz is technically superior than the conventional 16 bit/44.1KHz and most likely to produce more details, this upgrade does not guarantee better sound quality because of the analogue conversion stage. If a high bit DAC is always superior, why is it that dvd players do not catch on as being the ultimate and most sought after cd playback machine albeit sporting 24 bit/192Hz DACs even in sub S$500 category (even an Akira which costs less than S$200 has that capability)?

 

As technology progresses, a well balanced and contemporary cdp often yields better sound than an equivalent priced transport+combo set. However, if you are pondering on partnering a DAC headamp with your existing cdp, it does make economical sense to take this route, provided your priority is in getting a good headamp and not the DAC within. Thus, I suggest you prioritise this purchase on the amp's sound quality while the inherent DAC as a plus.

 

Footnote: The DAC in your Denon is an 18-bit Burr-Brown PCM61P which is already obsolete. Hence, it may be feasible to consider a DAC headamp. But it you are looking at upgrading the source only, go for an all new one-box cdp.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Mackie

[haxyer 0]

i am still deciding buying a DAC or a one box cdp for upgrade. but as i see heady said that it would only be beneficial to sound quality only in the 5k mark and that makes me lean more to the cdp side

[Mackie 0]

Given that your cdp is already old in the tooth, a full upgrade in cdp is warranted. Forget about outboard DAC. Jitters is a major concern and if you can overlook that, I am sure you might as sell get a dvdp but this is just to confirm high bit DAC does not necessary equate to better sound. Therefore, a one-box-cdp is the way to go. However, don't just follow our advice, give it an audition. If you really wish to retain service of your Denon and want an outboard DAC, give it an audition.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Mackie

[haxyer 0]

so which are the better players these days with a budget of around 500 to 600. i am more inclined towards rock music and acoustic guitar.

 

i heard the cambridge audio 640 is good for rock music. is there any other players that is good ?

 

well i dont mind trying the china players and the orginal A8s looks promising to me

[heady 0]

i am still deciding buying a DAC or a one box cdp for upgrade. but as i see heady said that it would only be beneficial to sound quality only in the 5k mark and that makes me lean more to the cdp side

 

Hi, it wasn't me saying that, I don't have the experience. I am confirming what Mackie said. I am also curious which CDPs are good value at S$1000 +/-. I have heard about the Rega Planet but it is quite ex, right?

 

[Mackie 0]

so which are the better players these days with a budget of around 500 to 600. i am more inclined towards rock music and acoustic guitar.

 

i heard the cambridge audio 640 is good for rock music. is there any other players that is good ?

 

well i dont mind trying the china players and the orginal A8s looks promising to me

 

The Cambridge U mentioned is a well regarded player. I reckon Rotel and NAD should be suitable, thus, a visit to KEC (Adelphi) is necessary. Marantz may not suit you albeit popular considering your budget. It has a warmer nature and also slightly slower in tempo which you might not like considering the genre you listen to. Give it a try though (again at KEC).

 

have heard about the Rega Planet but it is quite ex, right?

 

Last heard, CD Acoustics quoted S$1450 for the Rega Planet. It's worth the money I reckon. Otherwise, Marantz CD17MKIII (below S$1000) and if you are into SACD, Sony SCD-XA3000ES (the one Albert uses at AA) is a pretty good player in both SACD and CD redbook playback.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Mackie