Silclear hocus pocus or does it really work?

[peanutbutterjam 0]

From an engineering perspective, there are valid explanations to powercords and there are appliances that require them to be of good quality. It's just that "any engineer" out there is usually under-informed.

Eh? What explanations are those? I'm really curious to know.

[Guest dragonboy]

Just to make sure it's makes a diff, I tried applying on a few of my connectors like RCA, speaker terminals, my ACS T1 contact, it definitely shows much clearer imaging.... especially the midrange. It is quite obvious if u ask me.

 

I never worry about specs or what material manufacturer as long as they DO sound good. Will start to put on my car batteries and see what happens?

Edited May 9, 2009 by dragonboy

[wwenze 0]

Eh? What explanations are those? I'm really curious to know.

 

Try this for a start:

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fc...r&4&5#Audioengr

 

To add on, cables are inductive in nature, L = V/(dI/dt) i.e. the bigger the change in current, the bigger impedance of voltage you get. This kind of fluctuation in voltage is a form of power supply noise, but that's not all. Because a cable is both inductive and capacitive, the energy stored will be dumped back to both the source and the load during other parts of the cycle.

 

If you can see that a cable actually behaves like an LC filter. And sure enough, like improperly designed/placed chokes and capacitors they can kill performance. Or it can be made to do opposite - some power cables boast noise filtering properties, by giving it the appropriate inductance and capacitance through construction. While for most others the goal is to reduce these to a minimum, with thick solid-core conductors, lots of shielding and careful selection of dielectric.

 

Ultimately the cable will not cause as big of a change as a real filter. But if you have a power conditioner, the least you'd want is for a cheap cable to negate its effects. Even if you don't have a power conditioner, less noise closer to the load is always welcome.

 

Oh. and this is not including the talk on connectors yet. Some of the cheapest power heads/sockets/distributors I've seen has less contact area (between the bare wire and the connector) than a crimped Canare RCA. Or actually, make that all of them.

 

Add2: Another way of thinking is how all cables will generate some form of noise by themselves with current passing through them. And consider that the norm power cable is of smaller gauge and lower quality than audio cables, while required to pass more than 200 times the voltage and maybe around the same number times of current to a much smaller, constantly fluctuating load. Of course there will be filtering, before the transformer, after the transformer, before the regulator, after the regulator, and decoupling capacitors right next to the component i.e. IC. And apparently it's still never enough. And power supply noise is the single most irritating noise in audio because it limits performance, can be amplified, and lots of voltage references are point to it.

Edited May 9, 2009 by wwenze

[kidult 0]

I never worry about specs or what material manufacturer as long as they DO sound good.

those doesn't worry me as well

 

[ical 0]

I don't have to know the cow to eat beef. Audio stuff is like black magic. Take example Acoustic Revive products like RR-77 or SFC SK-EX "photo album" CD de-static (just velvet in it!), they can't be explain. As long as it works, I'll buy it's theory.

Edited May 9, 2009 by ical

[wwenze 0]

Moo

Edited May 9, 2009 by wwenze

[sonq 0]

I'm using the version by Walker Audio. I've tried it on my main rig and the impact is more obvious on speaker cables and powercords; least on digital interconnect to my Dac. The tonal balance seems to be slightly emphasized at the treble area on analog & d interconnects.

[peanutbutterjam 0]

Ok before I begin, let me point out that while you have pointed out the difference between a stock power cable and a "audio grade" power cable, you still have not mentioned anything about different "audio grade" cables, for example, say the difference between the belden 83803 which cost a few bucks and your favourite few hundred bucks power cord.

 

Ok lets see what you have said:

 

Try this for a start:

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fc...r&4&5#Audioengr

Before i comment on this post, for the benefit of other readers, I would like to clarify the formula that this poster used: v = I*(wL+R) Most ppl would know what is V, I, R, L is the inductance in Henry, and w (omega actually) is the angular frequency of the oscillating power.

 

Firstly, the poster obviously failed basic physics. This formula totally doesn't make sense. That poster obviously just derived that formula from V = wLI and v = Ri. Now, notice that i use caps in one eqn and not the other, the one in caps refer to amplitude. In short, in your AC current, we can write v = V*sin(wt). Also note that the formula V = wLI DOES NOT mean that v = wLi, actually the correct expression is v*sin(wt) = wLi*cos(wt), i.e. they are exactly out of phase. Audioengr (his nick) indeed.

 

The correct expression for a sinusoidal driven circuit is V = I*sqrt[R^2 + (wL)^2]. Now if we use HIS values, which in the first place cannot be verified at all, we get V = I*sqrt[0.235^2 + (60*7.2e-6)^2] = 0.235000397 Notice the interesting thing? Even IF your power cord has perfect zero impedance, you only get 0.235, which is 0.00168% difference. I don't even need to use his 2nd example of a better power cord to blast his 22% bullsh*t out of the water.

 

Worse still, you realize that both equations assume an ideal circuit without load. This is of course far from the truth. Adding some impedance for the load decreases the above percentage even further. I'm not even sure if we can measure this difference in a home environment.

To add on, cables are inductive in nature, L = V/(dI/dt) i.e. the bigger the change in current, the bigger impedance of voltage you get.

Inductive in nature? 7.2e-6H (based on your poster) is inductive in nature? And in the first place that number is totally insignificant, since the inductance of the wire will increase far more than that ammount due to the coiling of the cable (cause it is impossible for anyone to put his snakes in a perfect linear fashion. And half a circle counts as coiling too, it does not have to be a complete circle.)

 

If you can see that a cable actually behaves like an LC filter. And sure enough, like improperly designed/placed chokes and capacitors they can kill performance. Or it can be made to do opposite - some power cables boast noise filtering properties, by giving it the appropriate inductance and capacitance through construction. While for most others the goal is to reduce these to a minimum, with thick solid-core conductors, lots of shielding and careful selection of dielectric.

LC filter? Ok I've talked enough about L inductance, lets see about capacitance. The belden 83803 power cord has 32e-12F of capacitance. Go figure.

 

Conclusion? Stick to well known arguments like "it just sounds good". Don't touch science unless you know what you are talking about.

 

EDIT: No offense bro, the last statement was not directed against you as well.

Edited May 9, 2009 by peanutbutterjam

[wwenze 0]

lol, none taken, as I don't see any.

 

And it's great to see another observant member who know his stuff.

 

Never really looked thru his calculations, coz I just plucked a random article from the net. Glad that you pointed out the mistakes. You're right, it makes no sense on first glance.

 

Regarding my part of the reasoning I gave, notice I never mention the significance of the figures. I never do unless I have the means to obtain and perform the right calculations i.e. I totally do not know just how much is significant or audible. The inductance and capacitance of cables as you've mentioned, and almost about everything else, of and between cables, are pretty much negligible, less the cable construction, if you compare it against something else that is designed to purposely change those values. And yet, small differences between the physical properties of cables can cause audible and measurable differences.

 

The reason I like to use "crap grade" vs "audio grade" during reasoning is to maximise the differences to aid myself in pointing out what the possible causes are. It's like listening between crap and audio grade and hear the big difference thus able to conclude that the audio grade is better. So Re: different "audio grade" cables, my answer is that the extent of the physical differences between different "audio grade" cables is much smaller than that between "audio" and "crap", just like how the sonic differences between different "audio grade" cables is much smaller than that between "audio" and "crap", assuming same construction.

 

(Actually, if you think about it, the last statement is pretty self-contradictory actually. Because if the constructions are exactly the same there won't be any difference to speak of. So lets define "same construction" as same general idea of constuction, can't be letting twisted pair fighting against parallel-running or coax. )

 

Well, this is my general approach of looking at things. Ignoring the complicated functions required for calculations, if there's difference in performance of something and there's difference in the properties of something, I'll attribute them to each other.

 

Add: Anyway a bit OT... lets go back to the Silclear. I think that one has no area for argument, sonic or electrical wise. Can't be cluttering up to board, not my style.

Edited May 9, 2009 by wwenze

[wwenze 0]

Back onto topic, something just crossed my mind;

 

When the designers of various connectors were setting the standards, did they take into consideration the contact and oxidation problems at the connecters?

 

Because if they didn't, then we're all operating out of spec without contact enhancers and preservatives.

 

That means we've all been listening to crap all the while without the contact grease. XD

 

This might just be the most interesting and important (and unsung) part of an audio setup. Heck if it was supposed to have been a mandatory part of the system. And I've never before come across something that makes so much sense yet was undiscovered. XXD

F, even if it by itself doesn't improve performance, it can stop my speaker wires and terminals from oxidising like crazy! Why didn't I think of this before? Still took lessons as mechanic somemore. XD (Have to apply it to battery terminals. So actually dragonboy's guess it correct. Going off-topic, the advantages are less arcing, heat, better battery performance (can make the difference between able to start engine and not, on a weakened battery), longer battery life.)

Edited May 9, 2009 by wwenze

[Guest dragonboy]

I have started to remove my RCA connectors, IEC powercords apart, applied the silclear directly onto the internal contact........ BOY! ... I'm really gonna like this cheap upgrade tweak!

 

[ical 0]

Ok, I'm a believer now. First impression, sound more refine and high is much smoother.

Edited May 13, 2009 by ical

[Eric Chia 0]

jus got the silclear from 1 of our good friends here...

i am believer now.....much darker, very refine and smooth soundstage....

btw i try messing and mix the silclear with deoxit progold together

and guess wat i found out? silver paste+ gold liquid =crystal??????

similar to i heard with guys at Norman audio today.....

[Stereo_Electronics 0]

jus got the silclear from 1 of our good friends here...

i am believer now.....much darker, very refine and smooth soundstage....

btw i try messing and mix the silclear with deoxit progold together

and guess wat i found out? silver paste+ gold liquid =crystal??????

similar to i heard with guys at Norman audio today.....

 

No diamonds?

 

[jojo_b2 0]

No diamonds?

 

I think you need to add Rhodiums and Berryllium to the mix for that. lol!