Hobby at a standstill?? Kinda..

[lypk 0]

Ok.. today i went to a friend's house (won't reveal name) to listen to his grado 225, hd600 and his expensive cd players plus amp.. and got a really big eye-opener...

 

To me, i hear a diff. between the grados, senn and my a900, but overall, i could say that i was quite disappointed.. the difference between all of them was so slight that i don't think i can justify spending $200/300+ on them.. Yeah, i heard the more upfront sound of the Grados, i heard the more laid-back and smooth sound of the senns, but if you need me to give you a percentage of the differences between them, i would say that they are at most.. 5%.. maybe less.. Seriously, after hearing the diff.s, the first thing that came to my mind was that the diff. between the headphones are really really way overhyped in (the famous hp forum).. and the grados really didnt have as much energy and synergy as i expected.. anyway.. the best have yet to come..

 

I was allowed to connect the headphones from the $500 amp to the $5000 amp.. guess what? The same "logic" applied.. it sounded a tad smoother, a bit more detailed.. btw, when i say more detailed, it simply means i could hear just an additional guitar/drum being played.. i really don't get y these kinda details can be said to be "night and day differences"... in the end, lets just say im glad that i've not even bought an amp yet.. oh wait... theres more..

 

The headphones was connected to a Cary player.. i normally listened to songs on my Sharp mini hi-fi.. and from my memory, i still find that songs on my hi-fi feel kinda fuller.. but not as smooth and very slightly less detailed.. again, the smoothness of the cary, IMO is only say.. 5-10% smoother?

 

So in the end, i didn't get any hp from him although i was suppose to.. he was a nice guy to let me try them out first.. thanks today was really a big eye-opener for me..

 

B4 i end, i would like to remind everyone that this is purely my opinions.. YMMV.. but not by much i won't call myself having a good pair of ears nor experienced in high-end equipment, but i'm definitely not a newbie to this things.. i'm at least a rookie.. And i'm looking at this from a music lover POV, not from a music critque's POV.. anyway, i WOULD really suggest newbies to REALLY audition any equipment that they wanna buy first.. if possible, at least a few hours.. and bring your other hp along to do A/B testing to spot diff.s... BTW, thanks, Mackie, for your past advices.. now i understand on the points you were pushing across ;P Well, you might argue that maybe i need some time to get out of the A900 sound.. who knows.. or maybe i have the so called tin-ears (not that i really care.. i just wanna enjoy my music.. haha).. but again, from my POV, the only reason why some pple can tell the diff between high and lower end equipment is probably becuz they've had the chance to use both of em for a longer period of time, thereby allowing their ears to "learn" what exactly is better sound.. i did, when i moved from the AT-CM3 to the A900.. and lets just say that the best way to do that is to buy em..

 

Ok, enough of talk.. i'll think i just stick to buying cds.. $2 for chinese/canto and $3 for eng/jap second hand at Cash Convertors.. just in case some of you dont know still, i think i should go try out the grados and the senn again.. maybe i'll hear some diff. after my 3 weeks OCS confinement..

 

Comments/questions/opinions welcome.. flaming is off.. into the pool...

 

P.S. Do any of you know of any songs that are recorded in Binaural? Cuz so far, i've only heard of Binaural music, not songs..

[neutralzz 0]

i guess different individuals have different thresholds on what they perceive as good sound.

some would prefer very high dynamics, depth, the rich thumps without the mids and highs being overwhelming at that volume (i.e. a more laidback representation)

some would prefer warmth, and richness, whilst the reall audio conneiseurs are those who are pretty nitpicky abt detailing.

one should think, and consider what sort of sound he is most satisfied with, and what type of sound he is looking for.

 

i've probably spent only close to a thousand odd on headphones n stuff, but still have not really found the sound which i seeked.

 

i've been listening to slightly better quality sound since i was young i guess.

when my dad was quite into audio with his colleagues etc, the primary amp setup was downstairs(thiel and copland setup), and having an unbelievably long living room, with full sized speakers, i can still remember that airy soundstage the width, depth, dynamics, and the details all elucidated in perfect harmony. my dad gave up that hobby probably 6-7 years ago. i was in sch pretty much and didnt have much time to fiddle around either. most components were sold except some remnants which i've moved up into my room.

 

no longer having the same components, and not having adequate space upstairs, plus the fact that my elder sis complains whenever i play music out loud.. i've decided to take a closer look to headphones.. search's still on. i realised a difficult balance to strike sometimes, to have decent dynamics, some headphones have to be driven harder, and louder volumes etc, but it becomes a little discomforting at those volumes as compared to a speaker set-up

 

condensed energy vs more diffused forms..

 

[neutralzz 0]

forgot to add, people put different price tags to what they deem is satisfaction to them.

 

whatever the case, be it a $50 amp, to a $20k amp, as long as one finds the desired satisfaction, satisfaction is priceless

[papaya86 0]

no offence man, but i tink you got problems with your ears

[papaya86 0]

i know its ur own views, but how can there only be 5 percent difference in the sound between the sennheiser and the grados, those 2 headphones produce 2 totally different kinds of sound. haha did u by any chance say this to the seller "hey my sharp mini hifi sounds pretty similar to ur cary cdp!" , and regarding your "YMMV", my personal findings is a world apart from yours.

Edited September 17, 2005 by papaya86

[lypk 0]

no offence man, but i tink you got problems with your ears

That's flaming if you didn't know.. Would your future replies please show some respect or at least some thought b4 you write them down? but whatever.. not gonna argue with you.. but like i said, this could be due to the factors ive listed.. that's y im gonna test em again.. and i didn't say that my hifi sounds similar to his cary player.. thank you... maybe we're just at a diff. threshold of contentment.. or you're used to listen to higher end equipment and therefore youre able to tell a bigger difference..

[N@Z 0]

i guess different individuals have different thresholds on what they perceive as good sound.

some would prefer very high dynamics, depth, the rich thumps without the mids and highs being overwhelming at that volume (i.e. a more laidback representation)

some would prefer warmth, and richness, whilst the reall audio conneiseurs are those who are pretty nitpicky abt detailing.

one should think, and consider what sort of sound he is most satisfied with, and what type of sound he is looking for.

 

...

All things being equal, the 1st paragraph from neutralzz post sums it up - subjectivity in an individual's taste & perception or ablilty to differenciate (the magnitude of) the differences. This can be used to explain many other things like taste in music, photography, cars etc. Hence the term YMMV (Your mileage may vary). This is what makes humans such complex & interesting beings.

 

The argument is nothing new, at the end of the day, how much a person is willing to spend is entirely up to them as long as they can justify/afford it. The analogy used to differenciate a $500 amp with a $5,000 amp doesn't take into account of other factors like: design, quality of costruction, quality of materials used, tactile feel (touch & operation) to name a few. These are factors which add to the 'satisfaction' or pride of ownership for some people.

[Q00 0]

Well spoken guys. I've learnt to just lay off the equipment envy and enjoy the music like lypk. Its the music that matters to me most.

 

Papaya86, you really need to be more tactful with your words. Just because you can percieve the differences doesnt mean another person can. The other person is no less of a human just because he/she cannot percieve it.

[neutralzz 0]

apart from audio.. one of my other hobbies's chinese tea.. omg people used to think of me as someone from the older generation but i m only 21

my parents were pretty when i spent a few hundred bucks on chinese tea (pu-erh tea). they are like.. heyy.. pu-erh tea is still pu-erh.. when you brew it... its still dark red!.. worth paying more than 10 times for some when others grades go for so much cheaper? when they drink tea, whether higher grades or less higher grades, once in a while they only mentioned of small subtle differences, this is slightly smoother.. this has a nice slightly sweet after taste and blah.. tea is still tea.

 

but to me it is what i find in the cup that satisfies me, the richness without astrigency, the purity of taste with careful aging, the depth from the years. not all people find this appealing though. i know what i am looking for, and there is a yardstick for comparison in my mind.

 

 

its not that lypk doesnt have good ears i guess, the only thing is he hasnt really in his mind found the sound he is most satisfied with. his satisfaction comes more from the music itself, as compared to the more qualitative details. maybe the more he listens, and the more exposure he gets.. some day he will finally formulate and understand and develop his own yardstick for comparison.

 

 

[Kube 0]

Hmm...it's interesting, cause sometimes, even I don't know whether when I'm listening to a freakin' expansive amp at my uncle's house or trying out some headphones that are more expansive than mine, that I'm really hearing a difference, or that I'm just THINKING that I'm hearing a difference. For example, when I listen to mp3's with my EMU, I think that because there's a better DAC, I should hear fuller, deeper, clearer tunes. Maybe the difference is practially imperceptible, maybe there isn't even a difference, but if I'm satisfied, then I'm satisfied.

 

Then there are the obvious differences, like isolation and bass. Haha...as said, if you can hear it, you can hear it. Just my 2 cents.

[lypk 0]

Well spoken guys. I've learnt to just lay off the equipment envy and enjoy the music like lypk. Its the music that matters to me most.

Yeah, in the end, when all's said and done, the most important part of any chain is still the music.. without it, this hobby won't even exist.. glad to at least know someone share my views

[Username 0]

lypk:

To be honest, the difference between the gears I own are really minute (I readily admit that I thought my MS-1 sounded better than my DT250 at first).

 

Hey, since when has hobby been about making sense?

 

Sometimes I do realise that I buy stuff just because I want to collect, collect, collect and... keep collecting.

 

But try this, use a new (supposedly better system) for a week then go back to your previous set up, it worked for me! It's sometimes what you don't hear that you take more notice of... of course YMMV!!

 

ENJOY!

 

 

[lypk 0]

But try this, use a new (supposedly better system) for a week then go back to your previous set up, it worked for me! It's sometimes what you don't hear that you take more notice of... of course YMMV!!

Yeah, that was what happened when i moved on from cheap sonystyles to the a900... and which is also what make this hobby kinda wierd in the sense that once we move onto higher end equipment from lower end equipment, we have to more or less 'learn' to tell the differences.. which brings us to the point where if we don't want to 'learn' these differences, we will in fact not know what better sound quality is, which in turn means we don't really have to buy better audio equipment... not sure whether i explained clear enough, but i think you should more or less understand my point..

 

Maybe all along, we're just dealing with the contentment of being able to hear better sound quality.. and to be able to do that, we have to first 'learn' what it is... I would say that it's very different from the very first time where you get your very first audio player, which maybe came with stock or slightly better earphones.. and the only thing in your mind was just the music, nothing more.. Somehow, i feel that i couldn't really get that feeling back anymore.. my attention is now split between the music and the need to get better quality out of it..

 

Ok, i think the above pharagraph is gonna get me lots of flaming and i didn't know y i wrote that, but i did.. so YMMVA.. your mileage may vary alot.. still, i'm gonna try out the headphones again

 

My humble apologise if i offended anyone in any way with my comments..

 

Argh.. need to get ready for tmr's bookin.. see you all in 3 weeks.. if i don't get more confinement

[idkfa 0]

I believe the problem most ppl are facing when jumping on the audiophile bandwagon is that they "expect" the expensive or "branded" headphones/equipment to wow and justify them. I was such a fool then. Thinking that i will hear something "dramatic" when I first had my Shure E5c. I only know how to put cds and press play. That's all I knew about music. But it all came down clear to me when my gf listened to my E5c cos I was complaining that I paid so much for such little differences. But she, who studied and performed in a classical band, knew the differences right away. What I perceived as piano, flute, percussion...etc were just perceived piano piano piano. Not even knowing how real pianos really sounded like. That, was me, the layman and the perceiver and the I think I know it all person. The "I think the jaguar is a powerful car cos I sat in one today." person.

 

I say that those who studied music, or played in a classical band, or any instrunments, WILL know the difference immediately as compared to those who has never played or even attempted any serious study on music. Dying to find out what REAL soundstaging, decay, instrumental signatures...etc are like, I started going to classicals concerts(sat in the front, middle, back, top, side), acoustic performances, even picked up piano lesson. All because I think I should know what REAL musical associations are, before I started commenting based on my feeble hearing and stereotyped perception. And reading up head-fi too often is bad bad bad. You don't actually learn, you can only read and that is not good. It's like saying certain cars are bad when you sat in all of them but didn't get to drive them and find out yourself. If a picture is worth a thousand words, isn't an experience is worth a thousand pictures. See my point?

 

And lastly, chose equipment to suit your taste of music, not buying them and finding music to bring out the equipment. Having expensive equipment does not qualify you as an expert too. LOL.

My humble opinion.

 

Peace,

 

 

P.S. Answering to the first post, Pearl Jam has a binaural recording. I forgot the album title, sorry.

Edited September 18, 2005 by idkfa

[N@Z 0]

The Album is enitled 'BINAURAL' but the whole album is not wholly recorded binaurally. The acoustic intros & sound affects maybe (thin air, of the girl, rival & soon forget) but other than that the whole album sounds like a normal recording. Good if you like your rock music raw. I love the drum work in this album.