DAC

[razer 0]

Yeah, I considered all of them... But the problem is that I've absolutely no experience with all of the players above and its really too hard for me to decide. The Linn's are really very expensive and if you could provide funding, I wouldn't mind the sondek....I'am sort of in a dilemna now because I can justifyy spending 2 grands on a pair of headphones but anything that's even above 2grand for a player seems a little on the high side for me...

[evil-zen 0]

From the previous posts trashing computer setups, I wonder how many actually tried a properly done computer setup? How many actually went through the way of a good soundcard/usb card providing digital out, DAC, extraction using EAC and playing through supposedly the best software player foobar2000? Computer based audio is not equivalent to mp3s and other lossy medium. It does not mean that you can only place your cd in the cd-rom and playing through that. Current cd/dvd drives are so good in extraction that quality does not matter especially when you use EAC to extract it. Every single bit can be reread several times to make it bit perfect. You cannot be 100% sure when using single speed cd transports. What if the transport fails to read a section of it? It interpolates(guessing) and no way can they sound good. When you have copied the cd to the hdd in lossless format, they are exactly the same as the cd.

 

Computer based setups are flexible. You can add upsampling using several algorithms, add crossfeed, equalise and so on. Each option subtly changes the sound to fit your preferences. Hard drives do spin but so do cd transports. My hdd is silent to the point that some cdps are louder than that.

 

Yes in terms of power supply they may be inferior. But does it really matter? I've measured 2 cdps and my soundcard in terms of digital output to my DAC. One of the cdp uses a linear ps and yet my soundcard has better measurements and sound better. Yes I used my ears and not just measurements.

 

You can get a RME soundcard with optical out to whatever DAC you want. Stereophile tested one of them several years back and jitter measurements do not lose to any other conventional cdps out there. I've also listened to higher end cdps and they are not better than my humble computer.

[razer 0]

Hmmm, that's interesting Evil-Zen. In fact, I think a computer setup would suit me the best because I'am in front of my computer most of the time. I'am using the stock X-FI soundcard that came with my comp right now so other than the RME, are there anything else out there that's also in the same league? That said, probably a benchmark dac-1 would be the DAC that I'll consider...

[evil-zen 0]

The newest consensus seem to point at the EMU soundcards like 0404 and 1212 for digital output. I haven't done much testing yet but so far 1212 digital out seems fine.

[loop_ 0]

i think if you bother to transfer the cds you want to hear to a lossless audio format, you'll mitigate somewhat the jitter issues with using a cd-rom as a transport.

 

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphon...design-m902.php

 

considered this? If I was in that price bracket i'd go for it. A good usb-capable dac will probably beat hands down any sound card out there

Edited June 23, 2006 by loop_

[razer 0]

So you're to say that I stick with my X-FI sound card and get a DAC that supports USB and play my EAC ripped songs directly from my comp ?

[loop_ 0]

yeah, except the usb connected dac will bypass your soundcard, so you won't be using that.

 

You can try yourself either 1) using cd-rom as transport, or 2) if it's noisy, encode to flac* or any other lossless audio format (.wav would be excessive) onto your internal or external hard disk.

 

worth a try, read rave reviews about the grace902 on head-fi, but of course, haven't heard it before

 

 

*http://arstechnica.com/guides/tweaks/encoding.ars - worth a good read =)

Edited June 23, 2006 by loop_

[razer 0]

Hmmm, that's cool. That way, it sort of acts like a DAC/AMP/EVERYTHING...

[neutralzz 0]

aah, you were a tad too late.. someone sold an accuphase dv 65 for a little under 2k recently and that player is currently valued at 3.5k.

 

dealer bought it and resold it >_<

 

i had been eying that but short of $ right now

[Cloud 0]

just my 2 cents

 

I am using my computer as source.

Audigy -> Maranntz DP870 -> DIY Tube Amp -> MS2i

 

I compared the computer using my bro's CDP

Marantz CDP -> DIY Tube Amp ->MS2i

 

and i can't find a difference(mayb its my ears).

 

However there is something about using the computer as source that won me over.

Thats the ease of switching songs.

With just a double click, u can switch from one song to next, from one album to another.

Now thats something CDPs or transport can't do.

 

For that alone, I am sticking to my computer until something comes along and offer the same ease of switching songs and a big difference in terms of sound quality as compared to computers.

 

 

 

[razer 0]

I am always a tad too late... Missed out on the Grado PS-1's (local) by two days....Someone please shoot me.... Curse you headfi....curse you sgheadphones...curse you echoloft....curse you audiogon...curse this hobby... I'am about to explode from all the research and read-ups since this afternoon till now and coming up with nothing.... Its 1am and my eyes are dying....

[Rameish 0]

Iif you are talking about upmarket soundcards vesus entry level cdps then IMO there's perhaps reason to investigate. The very popular hi-fi rag - Stereophile - had a review on a soundcard somtime back (it was a good review). Dont ask me which issue cos it's really not my cup of tea. However, the whole discussion is moot cos you're looking at budget of S$2000. Do you really want to experiment around with a computer?

 

Boot your computer and put your ear to the chassis - hear anything? Fan(s) perhaps, the hard drive, maybe even the switching power supply? Now, how's that as a foundation for your hi-fi chain? Then let's look at software. There are just too many issues to resolve IMO. The only exception is if you're using a similar softaware and hardware as that used by audio engineers in studios. And even then hi-fi buffs like me lament the good old days when older recording were analogue. But lets not go there today.

 

Final analysis; it your money and your ears - audition away and make your purchase decision :-)

 

Cheers

 

[razer 0]

Iif you are talking about upmarket soundcards vesus entry level cdps then IMO there's perhaps reason to investigate. The very popular hi-fi rag - Stereophile - had a review on a soundcard somtime back (it was a good review). Dont ask me which issue cos it's really not my cup of tea. However, the whole discussion is moot cos you're looking at budget of S$2000. Do you really want to experiment around with a computer?

 

Boot your computer and put your ear to the chassis - hear anything? Fan(s) perhaps, the hard drive, maybe even the switching power supply? Now, how's that as a foundation for your hi-fi chain? Then let's look at software. There are just too many issues to resolve IMO. The only exception is if you're using a similar softaware and hardware as that used by audio engineers in studios. And even then hi-fi buffs like me lament the good old days when older recording were analogue. But lets not go there today.

 

Final analysis; it your money and your ears - audition away and make your purchase decision :-)

 

Cheers

 

 

Btw, what's the whole issue behind all the noise generated by the computer. I'am just curious...Honestly, I don't know why everyone's so concerned by all that sound from the computer. How can it affect the signal quality out of the USB port? I'am a little confused over here....

 

My decision keeps getting wavered by all the stuff I read. Some say that the computer ain't as bad as we think while others believe in using a proper CDP/Transport=>DAC for a system...Honestly, I would like to go with a CDP instead of setting up a computer if money was of no object to me...However, I'am thinking about $2000 DAC's out of a USB port versus a $2000 +/- CDP.

 

Also, one thing to clarify, is it true that the signal out of the USB is as good as that out of a proper CDP ? As in, would all that electronics in a computer somehow affect the signal out from the USB ? I'am getting more and more confused....Really want to settle down with a more than decent system. I wouldn't mind going ampless or what. I just want to slowly build a system starting with the source first and then the interconnects and the AMPS and so on....

[cmk 0]

There is no way a properly setup computer will outperform a properly setup TPT/DAC or CDP.

If you are just talking about normal pop/rock music, then the computer will probably be sufficient. But if you're talking about well recorded vocals/acoustic instruments where emotion/timbre are very important, a dedicated source is always better.

 

Yes of course any noise, fan, HDD spinning or otherwise will degrade the sound of the source - from a purist point of view. I'm one of those who don't go about ripping music, don't listen to MP3, and I'd like my amps to be tubed, with separate power supplies or battery powered, that's the extent of this pursuit.

 

You asked about a CDP that would outperform the Benchmark DAC1, then I would recommend the Esoteric DV50s. That is the level you are talking about. Also consider the SimMoon SuperNova, Ayre, BAT VK-D5SE. Now these will cost you quite a bit of $$$$, but with the kind of cans you have, you will appreciate these high end sources. BTW the Grace 902 is a good alternative to the DAC1.

 

There are many routes to audio nirvana, and sometimes one route does not necessarily agree with another. At this level, its a lot of fine tuning of everything in the chain, power supply, cables, physical isolation, setup position, and equipment.

 

One simple solution could be to just get the Diva-modified CD63se, which would be a very cost effective option.

Edited June 24, 2006 by cmk

[razer 0]

So may i ask you what are you connecting your DAC-1 to ?